Porn Free for 90 Days

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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby Ben » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:39 am

You seem to be doing well with your efforts in sense restraint.
I hope that as you continue to rededicate yourself to celibacy that you are careful that you are not being motivated by aversion.
with metta,

Ben
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby dhammapal » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:55 am

Ben wrote:You seem to be doing well with your efforts in sense restraint.
I hope that as you continue to rededicate yourself to celibacy that you are careful that you are not being motivated by aversion.
with metta,

Ben

Surprisingly after the initial disappointment at letting people down I had almost no aversion at all regarding the female sex. There is the Buddhist meditation on the foulness of the body but all the teachings are to be subject to honest questioning. The Buddha said a woman can have beauty and charm (see Majjhima 13 the allure of forms in drawbacks of sensuality) and I don't have "sour grapes".

I am renewing my intention to accumulate merit of days free from porn because sexual craving when searching for porn is in conflict with my desire for inner peace, concentration and wisdom and I would expect a very stressful rebirth if I passed away at the moment of watching (see SN35.235).

With metta / dhammapal.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby Ben » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:16 am

Hi Dhammapal,

I am confused - how have you let people down??
kind regards,

Ben
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby dhammapal » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:52 am

Ben wrote:Hi Dhammapal,

I am confused - how have you let people down??
kind regards,

Ben

Hi Ben,

I see, so the thread is not anti-porn but mainly taking an interest in Buddhist practice re sense-restraint on the InterNet? (I had thought it was like a support group and my "relapse" would erode people's willpower. I need to have more respect for people's ability to make their own independent resolutions)

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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby Ben » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:59 am

Hi Dhammapal,

It is for support. For people who are dealing with their addictions to masturbation and porn. To diarise their efforts, give and receive support from others.
You are not letting anyone else down if you stumble from time to time. The important thing is not to entertain guilt or other negative thoughts if you are not completely chaste all of the time.
kind regards,

Ben
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby dhammapal » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:20 pm

Ben wrote:Hi Dhammapal,

It is for support. For people who are dealing with their addictions to masturbation and porn. To diarise their efforts, give and receive support from others.
You are not letting anyone else down if you stumble from time to time. The important thing is not to entertain guilt or other negative thoughts if you are not completely chaste all of the time.
kind regards,

Ben

Hi Ben,

Thanks for the clarification and support. I re-read the early posts to the thread.

So we're monitoring the practice as a work-in-progress rather than a final judgment by a court of law e.g. regarding my most recent "relapse". It wasn't a sign of permanent failure but rather sharing my renewed intention publicly is helping me stay positive. And I still have the ability to give support to others.

Is the thread focusing on the one big goal of 90 days porn-free or could it also give step-by-step support to regular users of porn? For lay-Buddhists who use porn every day I would suggest trying to abstain from entertainments and masturbation in the Eight Precepts once a week on Uposatha Days (full moon, new moon, half moon days)

Porn-free for 23 hours.

With metta / dhammapal.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby zavk » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:53 am

HI dhammapal and anyone else who is seeking to understand the attraction of porn...

I'm not suggesting that you actively seek out porn to test this out. But if and whenever you find yourself engaging with porn, perhaps you could inquire into how you are relating to it. Rather than only assume a certain subjective position in relation to what you are viewing—that is, treat what you encounter as representative of certain kinds of desiring-persons and yourself as another kind of desiring-person desiring those other desiring-persons—perhaps you could also try to be aware of the various 'aggregates' that make up your experience of porn: forms, textures, colours, lines, rhythms, movements, sensations, sounds, vibrations, ebb and flow of feelings, thoughts, mood, tone, intensity, and so forth.

Whilst you work on strengthening your resolve to one day fully abstain from it, it may be helpful to 'de-solidify' the experience. Perhaps porn—regardless of what it involves—is not as 'fixed' or 'necessary' as we have been conditioned to experience it.

:anjali:
With metta,
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby dhammapal » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:11 am

dhammapal wrote:After 134 days I just looked at some porn :( Now I'm worried that I might have downloaded a computer virus! So back to Day 1 I guess.

With metta and apologies / dhammapal.

A sexually transmitted disease!? But I had Google SafeSearch on! :jumping:

Seriously though I am feeling guilty about increasing my blood pressure. I get it measured next Wednesday. The guilt is always worse the second day after the act.

With metta / dhammapal.

NB I initially had Google SafeSearch switched on (which allows some nude photography) when the suspicious download happened.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby Ben » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:58 am

zavk wrote:HI dhammapal and anyone else who is seeking to understand the attraction of porn...

I'm not suggesting that you actively seek out porn to test this out. But if and whenever you find yourself engaging with porn, perhaps you could inquire into how you are relating to it. Rather than only assume a certain subjective position in relation to what you are viewing—that is, treat what you encounter as representative of certain kinds of desiring-persons and yourself as another kind of desiring-person desiring those other desiring-persons—perhaps you could also try to be aware of the various 'aggregates' that make up your experience of porn: forms, textures, colours, lines, rhythms, movements, sensations, sounds, vibrations, ebb and flow of feelings, thoughts, mood, tone, intensity, and so forth.

Whilst you work on strengthening your resolve to one day fully abstain from it, it may be helpful to 'de-solidify' the experience. Perhaps porn—regardless of what it involves—is not as 'fixed' or 'necessary' as we have been conditioned to experience it.

:anjali:


Well said, Ed!
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby Ben » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:00 am

dhammapal wrote:
dhammapal wrote:After 134 days I just looked at some porn :( Now I'm worried that I might have downloaded a computer virus! So back to Day 1 I guess.

With metta and apologies / dhammapal.

A sexually transmitted disease!? But I had Google SafeSearch on! :jumping:

Seriously though I am feeling guilty about increasing my blood pressure. I get it measured next Wednesday. The guilt is always worse the second day after the act.

With metta / dhammapal.

NB I initially had Google SafeSearch switched on (which allows some nude photography) when the suspicious download happened.


You might want to invest in a decent anti-virus/online security package.
kind regards,

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Hereclitus


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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby Vlcimba » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:46 am

Ben wrote:
dhammapal wrote:
dhammapal wrote:After 134 days I just looked at some porn :( Now I'm worried that I might have downloaded a computer virus! So back to Day 1 I guess.

With metta and apologies / dhammapal.

A sexually transmitted disease!? But I had Google SafeSearch on! :jumping:

Seriously though I am feeling guilty about increasing my blood pressure. I get it measured next Wednesday. The guilt is always worse the second day after the act.

With metta / dhammapal.

NB I initially had Google SafeSearch switched on (which allows some nude photography) when the suspicious download happened.


You might want to invest in a decent anti-virus/online security package.
kind regards,

Ben



Save your money for charity my friend
http://www1.k9webprotection.com/

This is a good filter. I use to use it when I was struggling myself .
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby dhammapal » Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:33 am

6 days porn-free. Feeling much better since Day 3.

Instead of mentally undressing women I see during the day I'm successfully using the mantra "I could always look it up on the InterNet," in the same way as if I was wondering about some trivia regarding the history of the world and would never get around to actually looking it up but would let it go.

Today I was amazed when remembering how as a 14-year-old I was so convinced that regularly seeing the private parts of certain women would relieve my depression. Now I'm thinking in a more impersonal way, that for all intents and purposes I've seen it all before.

Thanks for listening / dhammapal.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby manas » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:53 am

...seeing the private parts of certain women...


...which, both literally and metaphorically, lead to one place - a womb.

No wonder most of us end up back inside one.

metta.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby dhammapal » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:47 am

manas wrote:
...seeing the private parts of certain women...

...which, both literally and metaphorically, lead to one place - a womb.

No wonder most of us end up back inside one.

metta.

Yes I've read the teaching that if headed for a human rebirth then during the death-rebirth process one watches a mother and father having sex. But most people aren't fortunate enough to get a human rebirth and watching videos of humans having sex doesn't help. :?

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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:50 am

dhammapal wrote:
manas wrote:
...seeing the private parts of certain women...

...which, both literally and metaphorically, lead to one place - a womb.

No wonder most of us end up back inside one.

metta.

Yes I've read the teaching that if headed for a human rebirth then during the death-rebirth process one watches a mother and father having sex.
Eeeewwww.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
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Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby manas » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:18 pm

dhammapal wrote:
manas wrote:
...seeing the private parts of certain women...

...which, both literally and metaphorically, lead to one place - a womb.

No wonder most of us end up back inside one.

metta.

Yes I've read the teaching that if headed for a human rebirth then during the death-rebirth process one watches a mother and father having sex. But most people aren't fortunate enough to get a human rebirth and watching videos of humans having sex doesn't help. :?

With metta / dhammapal.


Hi dhammapal,

I didn't mean it like that...I did not want to have to spell this out, but since we are all adults here, what the heck: we blokes are often obsessed with female bodies, with a wish to get 'in' to a vagina if you know what I mean, but the vagina is literally an entrance point to a tunnel that leads to a womb. When I think of it in this way, it loses some of it's appeal. That's more what I was getting at. To not just see the appealing part, but to look deeper and see the underlying structures as well. Although I'm not pretending this is easy or a quick fix, otherwise surgeons and anatomists would all be free from lust, which as I understand it is not the case!

Regarding ending up in a womb due to excessive attachment to sensual pleasures, I didn't necessarily mean a human one. Animals also have wombs.

metta.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby dhammapal » Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:27 am

Day 17.

Last night I thought that seeing “hairy” women in the nude was what I really wanted in life. Then I remembered the scientific study on dopamine in the brain when it thinks it has hit the evolutionary jackpot by seeing more nude women in a day that a man in 1800 would have seen in a lifetime. I decided to continue the 90 day project because looking at the photos might only give momentary satisfaction and leave me worse off than when I started (I have a heart condition plus a meditation practice). I remembered the Beauty Queen sutta with the simile of balancing a bowl of oil with a swordsman walking behind for mindfulness immersed in the body. Manas' womb idea helped too.

I think that vocabulary and perception (e.g. for mammary glands) has a powerful effect on sexual craving. This morning I remembered a jingle from a porn video I watched as a teenager, “Her lovely body...” I realized that I didn't really want to see women's bodies as the word body has negative connotations for me from my Buddhist study and meditation plus in criminology body refers to a corpse after it is no longer an existing person.

I might flush out my prostate in seclusion once a month or so based on mindfulness of the subtle sensations in my genitals during the day. I realize I've neglected this aspect of mindfulness of the body. Today is Uposatha Day so I'll refrain from any sexual activity.

With metta / dhammapal.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby dhammapal » Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:41 am

Back to Day 1. (18 days before that, 134 days before that and 168 days before that)

It wasn't as interesting as I thought and I didn't have any craving to download any of the photos. I don't have a prostate infection. My heart seems to be OK.

I think even if you know you are going to look at porn in the future Buddhist practices of dana, sila and bhavana are not wasted but still protect you from lasting addiction.

With metta / dhammapal.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:52 am

Maybe meditation (bhavana) on pictures help in addition.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby dhammapal » Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:44 am

Still Day 1.

I found some medical videos on youtube, with a female doctor calmly pointing out the female anatomy of the women, which addressed my curiosity from my teenage years. So now I'll never use porn again! as in porn nothing stands still long enough to be analyzed and it is designed to provoke craving. Anyway even the medical videos seem to have raised my blood pressure (140/100) and given me chest discomfort. I spent 2 1/4 hours in the medical centre this afternoon. I noticed there was subtle discomfort in my chest when I looked at women in the waiting room or particularly on the TV. Finally I met a professional and calm doctor. He said I don't need to masturbate that a prostate infection is caused by bacteria. He listened to all my symptoms and treated me with a short-acting tranquillizer that I usually take an hour before the dentist. Things should calm down now that I am letting go of surfing youtube for a while.

So even if the nude women online are satisfactory for orgasm there will be increased lust for women encountered in daily life even though they are not as attractive. My approach on seeing a woman of "I could always look it up on the InterNet" was misguided. Looking up on the InterNet what she might look like in the nude actually leads to mental undressing and unfair sexual desires. And getting obsessed on women and forgetting about the Dhamma.

With metta / dhammapal.
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