Being aware of being aware

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation
Scott1989
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Being aware of being aware

Postby Scott1989 » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:22 pm

Being aware of being aware.

As long as I am aware of being aware, this means being consciously aware of something. I cannot suffer.

When I am watching the breath, I cannot suffer, since I am consciously aware. When you are suffering, you are at that moment no longer consciously aware of the breath.

Consciously watching and suffering cannot exist at the same time. Yes, they can rapidly switch several times in a few seconds, but they cannot exist at the same time.

When you feel that you are thinking, you are no longer aware of being aware. You are now not awareness, but thought. Your identy now lies in the thinking process.

Being aware of being aware doesn't require thinking. When you are watching something, you are automatically aware of being aware. Consciousness has attached itself to awareness. When someone asks you what you were doing after you were watching the breath, you would answer "watching the breath". When someone asks you what you were doing when you were thinking, you would most likely say "I was thinking". There lies the difference. Of course, there is enlightened thinking, which is consciously watching thinking, but this is not the kind of thinking most people use.

What if we would practice being aware of being aware of whatever it is we are aware of at all times? Without choosing what it is that we are aware of, since consciously choosing would imply we are thinking which means that we have left the state of being aware of being aware.

How simple would the spiritual path be? Of course, actually doing it is another matter entirely, but what it is that needs to be done is in a way the most simple thing that can be done.
Last edited by Scott1989 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Scott1989
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Re: Being aware of being aware

Postby Scott1989 » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:31 pm

Why does this work? All objects are without a self. What can the body/mind still do when it realizes there is no self in it? Nothing more than surrendering everything but watching. Attaching its 'identity' to awareness itself.

When you are dreaming, you are a character in a dream with a personality and choices. As long as you believe you are this character, you can suffer. When you would realize it is all a dream, then who are you? The space in which the dream happens, the awareness of what happens. Then, what can you still do? Nothing more than watching.

Your fake self then consciously watches. Consciousness is attached to awareness. Awareness is aware of itself through the character in the dream.

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Re: Being aware of being aware

Postby lament » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:40 pm

Scott1989 wrote:When you would realize it is all a dream, then who are you? The space in which the dream happens, the awareness of what happens. Then, what can you still do? Nothing more than watching.

The space in which the dream happens is anatta (not you)
The awareness of what happens is anatta
Watching is anatta

Good luck with your practice

Scott1989
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Re: Being aware of being aware

Postby Scott1989 » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:43 pm

That is indeed true, since every label you can give only exists inside the dream. Your essence is the one thing that is not in the dream and thus cannot be described. The description would only be part of the dream. Still, when everything is surrendered, watching remains. Complete freedom from being conscious can only happen after physical death, but suffering can already be removed.

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Re: Being aware of being aware

Postby reflection » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:53 pm

The breath is also suffering, the jhanas are also suffering, awareness is suffering. Just be careful not to oversimplify. The Dhamma is really deep to see. :anjali:

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Re: Being aware of being aware

Postby Goofaholix » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:37 pm

I agree with reflection, you are oversimplifying and trying to have one aspect of practise become the solution for everything.

Awareness of the awareness I've found is a very effective approach, but by itself it doesn't prevent suffering, if you are not aware of suffering to some degree in the mix you are not aware.

What I've found about the practise that really helps to minimise suffering though is that your attention is no longer based primarily on experience and no longer emphasising the pleasant/unpleasant nature of experience. Rather the emphasis is on the capacity to be fully aware of experience, so it no longer matters whether experience is pleasant/unpleasant or good/bad it's ones capacity to maintain awareness equally and indecsrimantly that is important.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah

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Re: Being aware of being aware

Postby Scott1989 » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:01 pm

Resistance to what is cannot be when you are aware of being aware, because you are aware of what is. This is seeing things as they are instead of how you want them to be. This is living in the present moment 100% since you are always aware of what is. Resistance to what is happens when you 'become' part of what is instead of the watcher of what is.

The problem is in the language. As soon as there is attachment to the words 'awareness' or 'breath' or whatever, there is suffering.

So someone might think that awareness of awareness is not helping because he or she is still suffering, but in reality the moments of awareness are lost for a fraction of a second when suffering occurs.

When you are truly aware of being aware, you can have no belief of this is me or I am that, or whatever. If you do, you have lost the conscious awareness in that moment.

In other words, you can be free of the words awareness, etc. but never of conscious awareness itself as long as you are alive. The good news is that being consciously aware is not 'doing', since there can be no believe in doing involved as this would imply that you have lost the conscious awareness.

All the warnings of do not cling to this or that or that or this are to clean up language and thought in my eyes. What remains when all else is gone IS conscious awareness, but you will have no more way to describe it.

I don't feel like I am making one part of the practice the solution. The rest of the practice serves this goal as it cleans up everything else.

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Re: Being aware of being aware

Postby ohnofabrications » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:07 am

I would say you are right scott, and the sense in which the jhanas and breath are suffering is a different type of suffering - the kind ended in parinibbana not nibbana. I have had the same insight about the actual moments of pure knowing being interspersed with doubts and judgements, it is totally counter-intuitive to just reside in that awareness while the i-making is in operation, it seems that you are leaving yourself somehow vulnerable, there is often a sense of fear going along with it. A lot of the time when one attempts this there is a moment of awareness and then a thought "that wasn't so great" but the thinking was suffering, during the awareness there wasn't suffering.

When the awareness is continuous (fraction of a second to fraction of a second) then it can truly be recognized as the unbinding that it is, even as a memory because there is enough time for you to cognize its qualities.

Try remembering an embarrassing memory intentionally, no longer embarrassing, enlightened thinking as you said. The difference is a complete lack of cathecting. Now suddenly there might be the unintentional thought - was there really no suffering there? did I suffer? suddenly suffering is present again.

I believe I understand what you mean by 'being' the space in the dream and being the awareness, this is not the same as identifying with the awareness or the space of the dream, but the language of 'being' it will throw people who don't have an experiential understanding of it. One trap to watch out for though is taking an object within the awareness to be the awareness. The awareness is always something inferred, which is why you can't truly identify with it in a way that causes suffering even if the intuitive way to describe what you are doing is 'being it.' This is the deathless - it is the lack of dhammas (it can't be perceived directly, only inferred) which is aware of dhammas (phenomena).

more importantly though, notice that when you are thinking about this you are doing the opposite of it and making the doing of it more difficult to achieve. again, on understanding this the intuitive thing is to think about it, it will be counterintuitive every step along the way to actually do it. SO DO IT! Over time you will be more willing to go against instinct, this willingness comes from recognizing that the exciting "king of the world" or "enlightened master" thoughts are painful and that just being aware in the way you do indeed understand is far more freeing than you comprehend (until you can do it continuously.)
;)

1 more thoughts before I stop enabling your effluent for becoming, now that you know how to practice directly, set a tough schedule and take the 8 precepts for yourself, if you have learned how not to suffer at least for short instants then you can do it despite the intensity of the instants of suffering (hunger, lust, loneliness, boredom, etc.)

(edited a few times for skillfulness)

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Re: Being aware of being aware

Postby DAWN » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:54 am

Ego's body is memory
Evaluation of fenomena arise from memory

Here and now, there is no memory
Here and now there is no ego
Here and now there is no evaluation
The mind knows nothing when it is here and now, it's clear and smooth

But there is suffering when the mind is in the future
There is suffering when the mind is in the past
When there is difference between internal state of mind, and external state of body
Suffering arise

When the mind's mouvement is synchronized with the body's mouvement
There is no suffering arise, no volitional formation arise, no consiosness arise, no name-and-form, no no six sense base, no contact, no filling, no craving, no linging, no existance, no stand and birth.


SN 12.37
The Kalara
II



The Blessed One said thus, to venerable Sàriputta who was seated on a side: ßIs it true that you have declared worthiness thus `birth is destroyed, the holy life is lived, what should be done is done, I know there is nothing more to wish.'
Venerable sir, I did not declare that meaning, with these words and phrases.û
Then Sàriputta, in which manner do sons of clansmen declare their worthiness. How should we know whether it is declared?û
Venerable sir, I did not say thus. I did not say it using these words and phrases.û
Sàriputta, if you were asked: ßFriend Sàriputta, knowing what and seeing what do you declare, `birth is destroyed, the holy life is lived, what should be done is done, I know there is nothing more to wish.' How would you reply this question?û
Venerable sir, if I was asked Friend Sàriputta, knowing what and seeing what do you declare, `birth is destroyed, the holy life is lived, what should be done is done and know there is nothing more to wish.' I would reply thus:
Friend, to whatever birth is tied, knowing that knot is destroyed I declare, birth is destroyed, the holy life is lived, what should be done is done, I know there is nothing more to wish.û
Sàriputta, if you were asked, friend Sàriputta
to what is birth tied, from what does it originate and take birth, what is the root for its origin how would you explain it?û
I will explain it thus, friend, birth is tied to being, it originates and takes birth in being and the root for its origin is being.û
Sàriputta, if you were asked, friend Sàriputta, to what is being tied, from what does it originate and take birth, what is the root for its origin, how would you explain it?û
I will explain it thus, friend, being is tied to holding it originates and takes birth in holding and the root for its origin is holding.û
Sàriputta, if you were asked, friend Sàriputta, to what is holding ... re ... ?
Sàriputta, if you were asked, friend Sàriputta, to what is craving tied, from what does it originate and take birth, what is the root for its origin, how would you explain it?û
I will explain it thus. `Friend, craving is tied to feelings, it originates and takes birth in feelings and the root for its origin is feelings.
Sàriputta, if you were asked, friend, knowing what and seeing what do you not attend on feelings with interest, how would you explain it?û
Venerable sir, if I was asked, friend, knowing what and seeing what do you not attend on feelings with interest, I would explain it thus:
Friend, these three are the feelings. What three? They are pleasant feelings, unpleasant feelings and neither unpleasant nor pleasant feelings. Friend, these three feelings are impermanent, whatever is impermanent is unpleasant, knowing this I do not attend on feelings with interest.û
Excellent Sàriputta! Sàriputta, there is also another way to explain it, `whatever is felt is unpleasant
Sàriputta, if you were asked, friend, released how, do you declare worthiness as `birth is destroyed, the holy life is lived, what should be done is done, I know there is nothing more to wish.'
How would you explain it?û
Venerable sir, if I was asked, friend, released how, do you declare worthiness as `birth is destroyed, the holy life is lived, what should be done is done, I know there is nothing more to wish.'
I would explain it thus:
Friend, with the destruction of all substratum, I am internally released, I abide conscious of that. When abiding conscious of that, desires do not secrete and I do not despise the selfû
Excellent Sàriputta!
ñhere is another way to explain it, `those desires that the recluse has said of I have dispelled them, I have no doubts about it.'
Having said that the Blessed One entered the monastery.

http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pit ... ggo-e.html
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

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Re: Being aware of being aware

Postby unspoken » Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:35 am

I think you fell for this thought of viññāṇa jhana of the 4 arupa jhana. The mind is caught up with the act of cognizance happening over and over again. Its like i am aware of being aware thus awareness exists only and this is the true way of salvation.

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Re: Being aware of being aware

Postby Scott1989 » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:29 pm

Yes, I agree with all of you, but I think that the problem lies not in what I said but in the application of what I said. If this is practiced in a way like 'I have to do this because I have to be enlightened and I have to achieve this and that'... delusion will be hard to get rid of. The right intention is the opposite: 'what I am doing is a misunderstanding and is causing suffering so I should drop it'. When everything is dropped conscious awareness is left. When you try to be consciously aware there is still a problem. There is no halfway point. You are on a certain moment either 100% awake or you are not.

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Re: Being aware of being aware

Postby unspoken » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:56 pm

Less talk more walk

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Re: Being aware of being aware

Postby bodom » Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:39 pm

unspoken wrote:Less talk more walk


"Those who have awakened don't talk of what they've awakened to, because it lies above and beyond all words." - Ajaan Dune Atulo

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

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Re: Being aware of being aware

Postby DAWN » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:12 pm

The Buddha has never say anything
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

Scott1989
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Re: Being aware of being aware

Postby Scott1989 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:49 am

bodom wrote:
"Those who have awakened don't talk of what they've awakened to, because it lies above and beyond all words." - Ajaan Dune Atulo


So basically someone who has awakened to something cannot share it with others and someone who has not awakened cannot learn anything from anyone who has awakened to something, since the people who have awakened to something cannot speak about it?

Then what are we all doing here?

Maybe talking to yourself is the problem. Since there is no self in mind and body there is nothing to teach yourself and no self who can teach and no self to teach to. Communicating with others is part of life.


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