Quick question about Buddhist Manners

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Ceisiwr
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Quick question about Buddhist Manners

Post by Ceisiwr »

Greetings


If your walking along and a monk or group of monks walk by what is the proper thing to do? Do you carry on walking on as normal or should you bow?


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Re: Quick question about Buddhist Manners

Post by DNS »

Good question. In the U.S. it is rare to see a group of monks; it is usually just one at a time, so then it is easy, you just do a simple bow with anjali. :anjali:

For a group of monks, I'm not sure. Once my son and I were heading down Vulture Peak in India and we came to a large group of Thai monks. We weren't sure what to do, so just started bowing repeatedly. :D Not sure if it was correct, because one of the monks asked (in perfect English) where we were from, reached out his hand to shake hands with me. I told him Las Vegas and his eyes lit up and wanted to hear all about it and how the Dhamma is progressing there, so we had a nice chat.
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Re: Quick question about Buddhist Manners

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i just put my hands together and do a slight bow, nothing dramatic (like you see japanese people do in movies)
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Quick question about Buddhist Manners

Post by Fede »

I think it best to go everywhere with a troop of cheerleaders complete with ra-ra skirts and pom-poms...
"Gimme a B...Gimme a U....!"

When I visited my local Monastery last Vesak day, the Monastery helpers and guides (laypeople) suggested simply smiling at the monks that day, or else they'd have a whole load of bowing to do back! There were masses of people there that day, so you can understand...
But on ordinary occasions, I was told to ignore them.This isn't considered rude, apparently. On the contrary, it's considerate, because they might be in contemplation or meditation, and it would be a distraction.

Thus was I told.

I guess it might be different elsewhere, so I think maybe going by your gut instinct....
But always respectfully.
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

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Re: Quick question about Buddhist Manners

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Fede wrote: When I visited my local Monastery last Vesak day, the Monastery helpers and guides (laypeople) suggested simply smiling at the monks that day, or else they'd have a whole load of bowing to do back!
Presumably not Theravada monks, since they don't return bows or anjalie to lay people...

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Re: Quick question about Buddhist Manners

Post by Individual »

clw_uk wrote:Greetings


If your walking along and a monk or group of monks walk by what is the proper thing to do? Do you carry on walking on as normal or should you bow?


Metta
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jcsuperstar
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Re: Quick question about Buddhist Manners

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mikenz66 wrote:
Fede wrote: When I visited my local Monastery last Vesak day, the Monastery helpers and guides (laypeople) suggested simply smiling at the monks that day, or else they'd have a whole load of bowing to do back!
Presumably not Theravada monks, since they don't return bows or anjalie to lay people...

Mike
is this all theravada monks or just thai?

btw some will bow back, shake hands, say thank you for alms etc, more so to western buddhists though than asian ones who expect them not to do such things
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Quick question about Buddhist Manners

Post by mikenz66 »

jcsuperstar wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:
Fede wrote: When I visited my local Monastery last Vesak day, the Monastery helpers and guides (laypeople) suggested simply smiling at the monks that day, or else they'd have a whole load of bowing to do back!
Presumably not Theravada monks, since they don't return bows or anjalie to lay people...

Mike
is this all theravada monks or just thai?
My understanding is that a Theravada monks don't "pay respects" to a lay person. They accept the respect paid to them with equanimity, since I'm paying respect to the Sangha, not to them personally.
jcsuperstar wrote: btw some will bow back, shake hands, say thank you for alms etc, more so to western buddhists though than asian ones who expect them not to do such things
Of course "my" monks will wave, shake hands, and acknowledge me. I'm not sure what you mean by "bow back". Do you mean an acknowledgement by nodding, or an anjalie gesture?

From an earlier post:
jcsuperstar wrote:i just put my hands together and do a slight bow, nothing dramatic (like you see japanese people do in movies)
Noone at my Wat (Thai or otherwise) would normally do more than that unless they were having a formal meeting with a monk (making an offering, taking precepts, etc).

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Re: Quick question about Buddhist Manners

Post by jcsuperstar »

Of course "my" monks will wave, shake hands, and acknowledge me. I'm not sure what you mean by "bow back". Do you mean an acknowledgement by nodding, or an anjalie gesture?

they wai and nod the same as i do :anjali:
From an earlier post:
jcsuperstar wrote:i just put my hands together and do a slight bow, nothing dramatic (like you see japanese people do in movies)
Noone at my Wat (Thai or otherwise) would normally do more than that unless they were having a formal meeting with a monk (making an offering, taking precepts, etc).
ditto

i think the asian buddhists have the idea that they are adressing the robe and what it means (a symbol of the sangha) and to say thank you when being given something by a layperson or to wai back would mean that the lay person was donating to the individual and not the sangha and thus not acrue the same merit.
but since most westerners see merit making as a sort of superstition, monks used to westerners respond with a sort of western respect, thus when a monk thanks me i dont think he's trying to rob me of making merit or think i've lost merit the way a thai buddhist would.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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mikenz66
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Re: Quick question about Buddhist Manners

Post by mikenz66 »

jcsuperstar wrote:
Of course "my" monks will wave, shake hands, and acknowledge me. I'm not sure what you mean by "bow back". Do you mean an acknowledgement by nodding, or an anjalie gesture?

they wai and nod the same as i do :anjali:
Hmm, that's interesting. I've never had a Theravada monk (Thai, Sri Lankan, Bangladeshi, Malaysian, or Western) wai to me.

Obviously I don't deserve respect... :thinking:
Or maybe things are different in Alaska...

Perhaps Ven Dhammanando can comment...

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Re: Quick question about Buddhist Manners

Post by DNS »

mikenz66 wrote:
jcsuperstar wrote:
Of course "my" monks will wave, shake hands, and acknowledge me. I'm not sure what you mean by "bow back". Do you mean an acknowledgement by nodding, or an anjalie gesture?

they wai and nod the same as i do :anjali:
Hmm, that's interesting. I've never had a Theravada monk (Thai, Sri Lankan, Bangladeshi, Malaysian, or Western) wai to me.

Obviously I don't deserve respect... :thinking:
Or maybe things are different in Alaska...
Ven. Dhammika in his Broken Buddha book complained about how Theravada monks do not return the bow or even a nod. I have noticed that only very few do return the bow. Apparently there is nothing in the Tipitaka including the Vinaya about this? It seems to be a cultural thing, perhaps?

Since they are ordained Sangha, I have never questioned it and maintained my respect for them with the bow. I was also thinking that it must our bow to the whole Sangha, not just the person. But in "Western" type cultures, it is sort of like extending your hand to shake someone's hand and then that person refuses to shake your hand. So it can be interpreted in a very negative way, I think in Western cultures.

Yes, perhaps Bhante Dhammanando or another venerable could clarify if there is anything in the VInaya or if this is just cultural?
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Re: Quick question about Buddhist Manners

Post by Fede »

mikenz66 wrote:
Fede wrote: When I visited my local Monastery last Vesak day, the Monastery helpers and guides (laypeople) suggested simply smiling at the monks that day, or else they'd have a whole load of bowing to do back!
Presumably not Theravada monks, since they don't return bows or anjalie to lay people...

Mike
Actually yes, Theravada Monks.
At the Amaravati Monastery.
The Monks DO bow back. But it's not a deep Ghasso-kind of bow... it's more of an aknowledgement.....

For example, whenever a monk gives a discourse to laypeople in the Meditation Hall, they come in and we stand, we bow, they bow back, we all sit or kneel.
But it's not a formal ritualistic kind of thing. It's just what happens....
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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gavesako
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Re: Quick question about Buddhist Manners

Post by gavesako »

In the UK monasteries, there is a more informal way of dealing with Western Buddhists, so it may happen that some monk will kind of nod his head or somehow acknowledge the greeting of the layperson, but not "bow" (meaning putting head on the ground).

In the Vinaya, there are some people who a bhikkhu should not greet (vandana) in this way: among them are a more junior monk, a layperson. It was just a conventional way of respecting one's social role.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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mikenz66
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Re: Quick question about Buddhist Manners

Post by mikenz66 »

Dear Venerable,
gavesako wrote: In the Vinaya, there are some people who a bhikkhu should not greet (vandana) in this way: among them are a more junior monk, a layperson. It was just a conventional way of respecting one's social role.
Thank you for that clarification.

In my understanding, these respect things are very helpful for the mindfulness of both the monks and the lay people, and to break down one's sense of importance. Bhikkhu Bodhi sometimes talks about how when he first ordained he had to bow to teenage fellow samaneras who had ordained before him and how useful that was to his mental attitude.

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Re: Quick question about Buddhist Manners

Post by DNS »

gavesako wrote:In the UK monasteries, there is a more informal way of dealing with Western Buddhists, so it may happen that some monk will kind of nod his head or somehow acknowledge the greeting of the layperson, but not "bow" (meaning putting head on the ground).

In the Vinaya, there are some people who a bhikkhu should not greet (vandana) in this way: among them are a more junior monk, a layperson. It was just a conventional way of respecting one's social role.
Hi Bhante Gavesako,

I should clarify what I mentioned earlier. When I said that only a few do bow back, I meant even a small nod, not a bow that bends at the waist.

So according to the Vinaya is a monk not supposed to even nod back when a lay person bows to them?

That is great (in my opinion) that the UK monks have adapted and acknowledge the greeting of the lay person.
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