Having a relative/ friend who is Sotapanna

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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DAWN
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Re: Having a relative/ friend who is Sotapanna

Postby DAWN » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:52 am

PS: for info abour dana

SN 1.42
Kindada Sutta: A Giver of What
[A deva:]
A giver of what is a giver of strength?
A giver of what, a giver of beauty?
A giver of what, a giver of ease?
A giver of what, a giver of vision?
And who is a giver of everything?
Being asked, please explain this to me.

[The Buddha:]
A giver of food is a giver of strength.
A giver of clothes, a giver of beauty.
A giver of a vehicle, a giver of ease.
A giver of a lamp, a giver of vision.
And the one who gives a residence,
is the one who is a giver of everything.
But the one who teaches the Dhamma
is a giver of
the Deathless.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

Parth
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Re: Having a relative/ friend who is Sotapanna

Postby Parth » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:26 pm

Dear Hanzze,

Frankly have not been able to understand your point. I don't agree that a Dana given with moha does not produce results, it does but the effect is much lesser than one without any attachment ( which except for noble ones) don't think anyone else is capable of doing. I personally believe love is the key and as it gets directed towards more and more people it develops the person as well as creates more merit. But this going off topic slightly.

Regards

Parth

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Goofaholix
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Re: Having a relative/ friend who is Sotapanna

Postby Goofaholix » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:53 pm

parth wrote:I personally believe love is the key and as it gets directed towards more and more people it develops the person as well as creates more merit. But this going off topic slightly.


That's right, and if that's the case it shouldn't matter what level of attainment of the receiver. One doesn't sit down and calculate who to give to to get the most bang for your buck if one gives out of love one gives freely.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah

Parth
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Re: Having a relative/ friend who is Sotapanna

Postby Parth » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:50 am

Goofaholix wrote:
parth wrote:I personally believe love is the key and as it gets directed towards more and more people it develops the person as well as creates more merit. But this going off topic slightly.


That's right, and if that's the case it shouldn't matter what level of attainment of the receiver. One doesn't sit down and calculate who to give to to get the most bang for your buck if one gives out of love one gives freely.


Deaf Goofaholix,

As per the story of velama Brahmin (on page 1) it does matter. This question I have asked from a perspective of cusrosity, one cannot will ones relatives /friends to be sotapanna or higher. But what if somebody is luckier !

regards

Parth

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Hanzze
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Re: Having a relative/ friend who is Sotapanna

Postby Hanzze » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:09 am

parth wrote:Dear Hanzze,

Frankly have not been able to understand your point. I don't agree that a Dana given with moha does not produce results, it does but the effect is much lesser than one without any attachment ( which except for noble ones) don't think anyone else is capable of doing. I personally believe love is the key and as it gets directed towards more and more people it develops the person as well as creates more merit. But this going off topic slightly.

Regards

Parth

Dear Path,
just try it. It's very teaching. Just observe, keep in mind and compare periodical. If it is an experiment, you would not be angry or take it personal if things running out different. Just have to remember the first eppisode of Kung Fu Pandha. Love and hate is tricky wheel which needs each other to roll on.

But what if somebody is luckier !

Support him/her and try to learn from him/her. But don't fall into jelousy our even into the so loved and self-promoted idea of sacrify (that is nothing but selfish at least)!! Supporting the vitouse is always a field of merit. Over all, children are very good teacher, as they are not so much into perceptions and mostly to not hold the 5 kandhas that strong as people coming into age.

Here a little story related to the Mangala Sutta (To Look After Feed And Take Care Of The Wife And Children Is Most Blissful) by Ven. K. Gunaratana Thera
Speaking of family duty especially to a man who desires to bring up his children, the perfect model of his virtue, it is of grave importance for him to bring into consideration the following hints:
1. Keep him away from the grip of vices
2. Teach him the way of virtue
3. Train or help him to become skilful in a trade or profession
4. Get for him a suitable marriage
5. Hand over to him his inheritance

A child receives training from his parents. There are stages of training and this varies on certain period of his age where a gradual changeover, due to his growing intelligence will be imparted to him. From the age of one to five where such periods demands the care and love of a parent, the child must be given every sympathy encouragement and companionship of his parent. From the age of six to fifteen is the opportune time to administer a careful and strict control over his difficulty, direct him to proper conduct in life and still into him the earnestness of his labour. Where punishment is unavoidable at the time the child shows misconduct or disobedience, he must be treated in a manner stern enough to make him see the true light of his misdeeds. But from sixteen and up the child is big enough to be spared any punishment whatsoever. He needs the respect and advice of his parent, who has also to be a guide and friend to him.

Illustration:
There was once a hermit who was on his way to the hermitage. He met a young boy who, out of sheer mischief began to tease and rebuke him. The hermit paid no attention to his rudeness, but instead went up to his mother who stood nearby, and advised her to make use of the young plant that grew nearby as a means to punish her child for his mischievousness. The mother completely ignored the injunction of the hermit who then went his way.
Twenty years later the hermit happened to pass by the same route where he saw a man hanging from a tree while nearby the mother wept bitterly over her son’s mishap. The hermit drew near and said to the woman, “My good woman, you need not cry any more, for your son is dead. You have yourself to blame for his death now. On this very spot, twenty years ago and by this very tree, I adviced you to train and bring up your child as he should be. Through that very mischief left uncorrected, it leads him to what he is today, a total wrack of his useful life where he should be trained and guided against the vices that always beset the path of a young man.


one Sutta in addition regarding virtuose children :

Three types of sons & daughters

This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have heard: "There are these three types of sons & daughters existing in the world. Which three? One of heightened birth, one of similar birth, one of lowered birth.

"And how is a son or daughter of heightened birth? There is the case where a son or daughter's parents have not gone to the Buddha for refuge, have not gone to the Dhamma for refuge, have not gone to the Sangha for refuge. They do not abstain from taking life, from stealing, from sexual misconduct, from false speech, from fermented & distilled liquors that cause heedlessness. They are unprincipled & evil by nature. However, their son or daughter has gone to the Buddha for refuge, has gone to the Dhamma for refuge, has gone to the Sangha for refuge. He/she abstains from taking life, from stealing, from sexual misconduct, from false speech, from fermented & distilled liquors that cause heedlessness. He/she is principled & admirable by nature. This is called a son or daughter of heightened birth.

"And how is a son or daughter of similar birth? There is the case where a son or daughter's parents have gone to the Buddha for refuge, have gone to the Dhamma for refuge, have gone to the Sangha for refuge. They abstain from taking life, from stealing, from sexual misconduct, from false speech, from fermented & distilled liquors that cause heedlessness. They are principled & admirable by nature. Their son or daughter has also gone to the Buddha for refuge, has gone to the Dhamma for refuge, has gone to the Sangha for refuge. He/she abstains from taking life, from stealing, from sexual misconduct, from false speech, from fermented & distilled liquors that cause heedlessness. He/she is principled & admirable by nature. This is called a son or daughter of similar birth.

"And how is a son or daughter of lowered birth? There is the case where a son or daughter's parents have gone to the Buddha for refuge, have gone to the Dhamma for refuge, have gone to the Sangha for refuge. They abstain from taking life, from stealing, from sexual misconduct, from false speech, from fermented & distilled liquors that cause heedlessness. They are principled & admirable by nature. However, their son or daughter has not gone to the Buddha for refuge, has not gone to the Dhamma for refuge, has not gone to the Sangha for refuge. He/she does not abstain from taking life, from stealing, from sexual misconduct, from false speech, from fermented & distilled liquors that cause heedlessness. He/she is unprincipled & evil by nature. This is called a son or daughter of lowered birth."

The wise hope for a child
of heightened or similar birth,
not for one of lowered birth,
a disgrace to the family.

These children in the world,
lay followers,
consummate in virtue, conviction; generous,
free from stinginess,
shine forth in any gathering
like the moon
when freed from a cloud.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_


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