Questions about noting

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
ohnofabrications
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Questions about noting

Postby ohnofabrications » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:30 pm

Hello,

Does Mahasi teach that at some stage in one's practice one should drop the mental labels and stay with just the sensations? Clearly mental labels can help focusing and can cause disassociation and multi-faceted equanimity (nanatta-uppekha) which is helpful to a certain extent. It seems however that attamaya-uppekha remains out of reach of noting because noting is an interference, a fabrication. I know some noters I talk to say that they have dropped noting at a certain point in their practice, personally if I try to implement noting at the current stage in my practice it is simply not possible for me to keep up with everything that is noticed. Two noters who's accounts I have read said that they reached an endpoint in their practice and so assumed that there was nothing more to be done even though it didn't resemble a lack of the 10 fetters or even a lack of 5, noting no longer brought development of any kind and they believed that they had become arahants and that arahantship wasn't all that great. I haven't done much noting, mostly just noticing (wordless noting basically), and I haven't read Mahasi's writings, so I ask people who have:

Does mahasi teach that eventually one should switch from noting to noticing?

In your practice have you found it to be necessary to do so?

Does anything I have mentioned here sound familiar?

Thanks

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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Questions about noting

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:43 pm

I'm not a practitioner of the Mahasi technique but I know that many in his tradition have stated that noting can be dropped once a certain degree of skill has been acquired.

Others, however, like Ajahn Tong, say that noting is essential for all meditators and should never be relinquished. He is the minority, however.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


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badscooter
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Re: Questions about noting

Postby badscooter » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:46 pm

I think the Venerable Yuttadhammo may be of assistance. Here are a couple videos addressing this ind of question.





see if these help..

with metta
:anjali:
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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Goofaholix
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Re: Questions about noting

Postby Goofaholix » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:59 pm

I think you are confused between noting and labelling.

Noting is noticing.

Labelling is adding a word in ones mind in addition to the noting, like an aid or training wheels.

Labelling should eventually be dropped but can be helpful in future at times when concentration is poor or muddled.

It's common for people to think noting is a process of labelling because of the way it's taught in terms of labels, rising-falling etc, this is just a function of language.

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James the Giant
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Re: Questions about noting

Postby James the Giant » Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:45 pm

Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.

ohnofabrications
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Re: Questions about noting

Postby ohnofabrications » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:45 am


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Goofaholix
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Re: Questions about noting

Postby Goofaholix » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 am


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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Questions about noting

Postby Modus.Ponens » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:15 am

Isn't noting dropped in the 2nd vipassana jhana?
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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badscooter
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Re: Questions about noting

Postby badscooter » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:59 pm

I'm not sure if there is a definite time frame when labeling should be dropped. Some have dropped it after concentration was well established, some never drop it. People have had progress in both ways. I would say, do what feels best for you... What would be even better is to get a teacher that can lead you through their linage with this tradition.

all be well :anjali:
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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badscooter
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Re: Questions about noting

Postby badscooter » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:04 pm

If you read the Venerable U Pandita's book On the Path to Freedom or In This Very Life, I believe he talks about when labeling can be dropped. However I also believe he makes a distinction between noting and labeling.

You can find a copy of both free online.
One is here:
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/path-free.pdf

the other maybe be here:
http://www.panditarama.net/ebooks/inthisverylife.pdf

be well :anjali:
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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Ytrog
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Re: Questions about noting

Postby Ytrog » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:39 pm

I find labeling a very distracting practice myself. I started out that way and it is great if your concentrations is really weak, but I prefer just trying bare attention to what feelings (bodily and mentally) arise and cease during meditation and the rest of the day.


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