YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some? - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Postby Hanzze » Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:50 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
Rui Sousa
Posts: 366
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:01 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Postby Rui Sousa » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:52 pm

With Metta

ohnofabrications
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:11 pm

Re: is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Postby ohnofabrications » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:23 am

A recommended meditation for overcoming a recurrent desire for a specific thing such as alchohol:

Upon encountering the desire -

Find the feeling in the body which tells you that you want the object.

Focus attention exclusively on the feeling and try to have perfect equanimity for it.

Sustain this until the feeling falls away of its own accord.

Repeat as necessary when it comes back.

Pacific
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:48 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Postby Pacific » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:54 am

What I have gotten out of the 5th precept is not just grog or drugs but all intoxicants that can cloud the mind. excess TV that dulls our minds, porn... you know. all that stuff. What was interesting to me is in a talk I heard just a couple of days ago the teacher was saying that in his experience when your sila becomes strong you have very little interest in that stuff. This is food for thought because it changes the way you approach things. You undertake the training. That's important because you might fail but that's fine. You are developing sila. You are undertaking the training to refrain from harming sentient beings (first precept) and that includes yourself. They're not commandments, they are trainings we freely undertake. If we ignore one we kind of ignore them all in a way and so we don't develop our sila and then our practice suffers and so do we.

Varillon
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:30 am

Re: is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Postby Varillon » Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:39 am

Because marijuana was mentioned in a casual use context in another thread, this seemed like a good time to share my, albeit modern, view. I was recently awarded disability for nerve damage and IBS among other things. The pain has gotten so bad that nothing short of a Demerol shot in the emergency room provides any significant relief. Over a year ago, I caved and tried marijuana. For the first time in a decade, I got my mind back. It wasn't riddled with streaks of white pain. In my case there would be no chance of meditation, focus, or reflection without hindering my senses with something.

For me, the 5th precept is relative. If use of any substance hindered my growth, I would enact the precept automatically. Another thing to consider is the idea that current Sangha are likely very experienced. They are on their way out of this plane. They would also not have the baggage that the rest of us lay people do. I hope that whatever karma I'm paying back this cycle allows me to be in the Sangha next round. This view also gives me great peace. I don't feel my ego activate which is always a good sign. :lol:

But, I'm new this go around, so I yield to the more experienced.

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:54 am

Hi Varillon,

I don't think that using marijuana for genuine medical reasons would be considered a violation of the precept, any more than the administration of morphine to an accident victim.

Recreational use of either is a different issue.

:anjali:
Mike

Varillon
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:30 am

Re: is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Postby Varillon » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:09 am

Hey Mike,

I think that is the typical view, but many people struggle with it still. There's no denying a change to the senses which can make judgement go awry. However, I am beginning to believe that meditation counteracts those effects. When I meditate, I can't tell a difference between very little pain/very little mj in my system and high pain/high dose. Granted, I do take longer to slip away using more mj because of how long it takes to drain my anxieties.

It's refreshing to see modern discussions on doctrine. (I was raised on Southern Christian doctrine.)

Namaste

User avatar
mirco
Posts: 448
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:12 pm

Re: is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Postby mirco » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:15 pm

"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." -

dagon
Posts: 526
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:45 am

Re: is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Postby dagon » Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:58 pm

For me the 5th precept is the easiest to keep - i just wish the other Precepts were as easy for me to keep. Personally i don't think that the first 4 Precepts would be an option for me if i was not following the 5th.

I used to drink very heavily (more than a bottle of vodka a day. One day laying on a beach in the Canaries i ask myself why I drank, but could not come up with even one reason that made any sense. I still can not, so i still do not drink. I don't consider that i gave anything up - i believe that i opened the door to many possiblities.

metta
paul

Varillon
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:30 am

Re: is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Postby Varillon » Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:41 pm

Hi Mirco,

A little over 2 hours from where I live is the state capitol. For me, that's actually a big trek, and I wanted to learn more before contacting anyone for a real-life meet. If anyone here knows anything about the groups in Little Rock, AR, feel free to pm me. And thank you for the encouragement. I had hopes that someone in the Sangha could help one day.

Namaste

Jhana4
Posts: 1309
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:20 pm
Location: U.S.A., Northeast

Re: is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Postby Jhana4 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:21 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

User avatar
khlawng
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:28 pm

Re: is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Postby khlawng » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:07 am

sometimes, i read threads like this one and i am so glad you guys have the choice of saying no to alcohol in your daily life.
my reality is that, i am currently hard at work to earn money to clear my debts and i have elder parents to support.
drinking alcohol when entertaining my clients is part of my business. this business pays for my mortgage and allows me to take care of others. it is what i do for a living and given my age, it is just impossible for me to start afresh.
i am lucky that i don't have a dependency problem with alcohol and i don't consume alcohol outside of work/entertainment.
i rationalize this as having to be realistic about our lives and i use the following 3 principles to guide me:

1) morality base on what the buddha taught
2) common sense
3) law of the land/country

so yes, i confess, i do break the 5th but i try to hold on to it as long as i can when i take the precepts during major occasions at my temple. but i do not feel bad about it because it really is my "reality" for now.

User avatar
Sovatthika
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:31 am
Contact:

Re: is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Postby Sovatthika » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:21 am

namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā sambuddhassa

User avatar
anthbrown84
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:59 am

Re: is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Postby anthbrown84 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:35 pm

I have a question relevant here

On occasion i drink these 0% beers... to make me look like i fit in if i pop out with my wife. I have recently found out they are 0.05% alcohol. This is probably the amount that is present in a bunch of aged grapes. Do you think this breaks the precept? They are sold as alcohol free and i think the 0.05% is the absolute maximum they COULD contain
"Your job in practise is to know the difference between the heart and the activity of the heart, that is it, it is that simple" Ajahn Tate

User avatar
BasementBuddhist
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:03 pm

Re: is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Postby BasementBuddhist » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:25 pm

All of Buddhism is 'optional'.

I drank last night because a guest brought me some wine and I could tell she was very upset. To create a congenial atmosphere where she could relax and feel free to tell me her troubles I drank. Did it cause heedlessness? Yes. Could I maintain mindfulness and listen as easily? No. Will there be karmic consequences? Yes.

Would I do it again? Probably. Helping a friend was more important to me than my own enlightenment, and the few hours I could not pay as much attention. This is just how it is.

Digity
Posts: 1205
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:13 am

Re: is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Postby Digity » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:02 pm


Digity
Posts: 1205
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:13 am

Re: is the 5th precept seen as "optional" by some?

Postby Digity » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:08 pm



Return to “Sīla”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine