Dream World v Real World!

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation

Dream World v Real World!

Postby equilibrium » Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:26 pm

There is a saying in a film:
"Have you ever had a dream that it was so real, what if you were never to wake up from that dream, how would you know the difference between the dream world and the real word?"

What does the above statement mean to you?
Do you think you are in a dream world or are you in the real world?.....more importantly.....are you awake?.....do you SEE any differences?
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby James the Giant » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:03 pm

I means to me someone has watched Inception too many times.
In my experience, it's only in films that people seriously say that. Hollywood seems obsessed by that theme at the moment.
Oh, wait, I have heard people say that, but they were on drugs at the time.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby santa100 » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:52 pm

The Buddha defined this "dream world" with more specific terms:

"The Blessed One said: "Monks, sensuality is inconstant, hollow, vain, deceptive. It is illusory, the babble of fools. Sensuality here & now; sensuality in lives to come; sensual perceptions here & now; sensual perceptions in lives to come: both are Mara's realm, Mara's domain, Mara's bait, Mara's range. They lead to these evil, unskillful mental states: greed, ill will, & contentiousness. They arise for the obstruction of a disciple of the noble ones here in training."
~~ http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html ~~
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby James the Giant » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:22 pm

Great relevant quote, Santa.
So if we are involved in sensuality then pretty much we are living in illusion, in a dream.
Interesting how that has echoes of Hindu roots to it.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby kirk5a » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:36 pm

equilibrium wrote:There is a saying in a film:
"Have you ever had a dream that it was so real, what if you were never to wake up from that dream, how would you know the difference between the dream world and the real word?"

What does the above statement mean to you?
Do you think you are in a dream world or are you in the real world?.....more importantly.....are you awake?.....do you SEE any differences?

Is that line from The Matrix?

I would say the dream is an unskillful interpretation of the real.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby equilibrium » Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:06 pm

James the Giant wrote:I means to me someone has watched Inception too many times.
In my experience, it's only in films that people seriously say that. Hollywood seems obsessed by that theme at the moment.
Oh, wait, I have heard people say that, but they were on drugs at the time.

Do you think there is any difference between the followings:
1) If the statement were spoken in a film and one hears it by their ears.
2) The statement were printed in a book and one were to read it.

There should be no difference at all.....What is more important is what does it mean?.....is it not?
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby equilibrium » Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:10 pm

James the Giant wrote:Great relevant quote, Santa.
So if we are involved in sensuality then pretty much we are living in illusion, in a dream.
Interesting how that has echoes of Hindu roots to it.

The question is not "if" as this would suggest that we are questioning the teaching itself.
The teaching is there to be understood.....is it not?
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby equilibrium » Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:12 pm

kirk5a wrote:Is that line from The Matrix?

yes it is.
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby Mr Man » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:31 pm

From Nisargadatta Maharaj:

Your world is transient, changeful. My world is perfect, changeless. You can tell me what you like about your world - I shall listen carefully, even with interest, yet not for a moment shall I forget that your world is not, that you are dreaming.

http://www.inner-quest.org/Nisargadatta_Detachment.htm
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby James the Giant » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:09 am

Mr Man wrote:From Nisargadatta Maharaj:

Your world is transient, changeful. My world is perfect, changeless. You can tell me what you like about your world - I shall listen carefully, even with interest, yet not for a moment shall I forget that your world is not, that you are dreaming.

http://www.inner-quest.org/Nisargadatta_Detachment.htm

Why are you quoting Nisargadatta Maharaj on a Theravada Buddhist forum? He teaches Advaita Hinduism.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby ground » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:45 am

equilibrium wrote:There is a saying in a film:
"Have you ever had a dream that it was so real, what if you were never to wake up from that dream, how would you know the difference between the dream world and the real word?"

What does the above statement mean to you?

It is a manifestation of delusion because it contrasts "real" with "dream". But actually everything originates dependently ... when there is this then that will arise.

equilibrium wrote:Do you think you are in a dream world or are you in the real world?.....more importantly.....are you awake?.....do you SEE any differences?

No difference. When there is this then that will arise.

:sage:
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby Magoo » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:04 am

ground wrote: When there is this then that will arise.
:sage:


Just to add to this and something that I have only just read that Ajahn Sumedho wrote and is very profound and that is that the above should read:

"When there is this, then this will arise." (rather than this and that) This difference is subtle but significant in my view.

With MeggaMetta
Eamonn
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby ground » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:08 am

Magoo wrote:
ground wrote: When there is this then that will arise.
:sage:


Just to add to this and something that I have only just read that Ajahn Sumedho wrote and is very profound and that is that the above should read:

"When there is this, then this will arise." (rather than this and that) This difference is subtle but significant in my view.

With MeggaMetta
Eamonn

Yes because be it called "this" or "that" actually there is no difference. :sage:
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby Mr Man » Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:54 am

James the Giant wrote:
Mr Man wrote:From Nisargadatta Maharaj:

Your world is transient, changeful. My world is perfect, changeless. You can tell me what you like about your world - I shall listen carefully, even with interest, yet not for a moment shall I forget that your world is not, that you are dreaming.

http://www.inner-quest.org/Nisargadatta_Detachment.htm

Why are you quoting Nisargadatta Maharaj on a Theravada Buddhist forum? He teaches Advaita Hinduism.


So it is okay to quote Hollywood movies but not Nisargadatta Maharaj? This topic is in "Open Dhamma"
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby Hanzze » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:13 am

World is how ever world (loka).
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby James the Giant » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:26 am

Mr Man wrote:So it is okay to quote Hollywood movies but not Nisargadatta Maharaj? This topic is in "Open Dhamma"

Ok, as long as people know you're quoting a Hindu opinion, not a Buddhist one.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby Sam Vara » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:51 am

Magoo wrote:
ground wrote: When there is this then that will arise.
:sage:


Just to add to this and something that I have only just read that Ajahn Sumedho wrote and is very profound and that is that the above should read:

"When there is this, then this will arise." (rather than this and that) This difference is subtle but significant in my view.

With MeggaMetta
Eamonn


Hi,

could you give me the source for that, please?

Thanks.
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby Hanzze » Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:43 am

As for "this and that" it's maybe more importand that there does not arise something if there is, or?

When this is, that is (Imasmim sati idam hoti)
This arising, that arises (Imassuppada idam uppajjati)
When this is not that is not (Imasmim asati idam na hoti)
This ceasing, that ceases (Imassa nirodha idam nirujjhati)



This sutta might maybe mergle the OP and the present stream of discussion:

Loka Sutta: (Qualities of) the World

At Savatthi. As he was sitting to one side, King Pasenadi Kosala said to the Blessed One: "How many qualities of the world that, when arising, arise for harm, stress, & discomfort?"

"Three qualities of the world, great king, when arising, arise for harm, stress, & discomfort. Which three? Greed, great king, is a quality of the world that, when arising, arises for harm, stress, & discomfort. Aversion... Delusion is a quality of the world that, when arising, arises for harm, stress, & discomfort. These are the three qualities of the world, great king, that when arising, arise for harm, stress, & discomfort."

That is what the Blessed One said.
Having said that, the One Well-Gone, the Teacher, said further:
Greed, aversion,
& delusion
— born from oneself —
destroy the person
of evil awareness,
as its own fruit,
the reed.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby equilibrium » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:53 pm

James the Giant wrote:
Mr Man wrote:So it is okay to quote Hollywood movies but not Nisargadatta Maharaj? This topic is in "Open Dhamma"

Ok, as long as people know you're quoting a Hindu opinion, not a Buddhist one.

It really does not matter where the sources comes from, what is more important is what you have read and what it means to you.
One should be able to "filter out" what is important and what is not.....remember, always focus on the original statement.....the task in hand.

I'd like to thank those so far who have made a contribution so far.

Later I will provide some more clues.....it is going to be a very interesting journey.
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Re: Dream World v Real World!

Postby James the Giant » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:36 pm

equilibrium wrote:It really does not matter where the sources comes from, what is more important is what you have read and what it means to you.

Well, sorry to be a fundamentalist, but if "what it means to you" is that the Hindu view of maya is true... well, sorry, that's simply wrong.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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