Path to Buddhahood

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation
Tom
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:50 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006

Path to Buddhahood

Postby Tom » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:11 am

Is there a path to Buddhahood, rather than Arhatship outlined in Theravada?

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006
Location: Cambodia

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:19 am

What would be the different form your view and why would one choose Buddhahood rather than Arahantship? Maybe the answers answer the question.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
Alex123
Posts: 2979
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby Alex123 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:38 am

ccharles wrote:Is there a path to Buddhahood, rather than Arhatship outlined in Theravada?



In orthodox Theravada, yes.
"dust to dust...."

Tom
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:50 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby Tom » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:38 am

Well I'm not too grounded on the differences honestly, however I've read that "Buddhahood" is supposedly the highest form of enlightenment (whether or not this is true, I don't know) , and I'm interested in learning more about that path. If you can share your knowledge on the differences as well I would greatly appreciate it.
Last edited by Tom on Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 20092
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:40 am

ccharles wrote:Well I'm not to grounded on the differences honestly, however I've read that "Buddhahood" is the highest form of enlightenment, and I am interested in possibly taking that path. If you can share your knowledge on the differences as well I would greatly appreciate it.
The "enlightenment" -- bodhi -- of the arahant is no different from that of the Buddha.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

Tom
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:50 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby Tom » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:42 am

Thanks for the info. If the "enlightenment" or bodhi is the same than what are the differences?

User avatar
Alex123
Posts: 2979
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby Alex123 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:44 am

ccharles wrote:Thanks for the info. If the "enlightenment" or bodhi is the same than what are the differences?


According to Orthodox Theravada, Buddha has fulfilled more paramis and is first arisen arahant in the period when Buddhasasana is not found.

Arahants on other hand, study existing Dhamma and don't have to go that far.
"dust to dust...."

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006
Location: Cambodia

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:49 am

ccharles wrote:Thanks for the info. If the "enlightenment" or bodhi is the same than what are the differences?


What would be the different for you?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

Tom
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:50 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby Tom » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:08 am

I wondered if becoming a Buddha would help the maximum number of beings achieve liberation in the shortest amount of time, as compared to an arhat.
Last edited by Tom on Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006
Location: Cambodia

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:19 am

Does it seems to you, or is it something you have been told?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

Tom
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:50 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby Tom » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:23 am

I have not been told this personally, I was just wondering
Last edited by Tom on Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

santa100
Posts: 1607
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby santa100 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:06 am

I think it's important to know exactly what is meant by Buddha, or Arahant, or Bodhisattvas. Unfortunately, these cannot be summarized in a few lines. Bhikkhu Bodhi wrote a great article on this exact topic. Definitely a good read and I'd strongly recommend it..

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ttvas.html

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006
Location: Cambodia

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:07 am

ccharles wrote:I have not been told this personally, I only know what I know through a bit of research on the issue.

So told via reading what was written. What is your opinion to it and maybe more important, what would be your intention behind it (for expample the desire to attain Buddhahood)? What is behind, deep inside of such a desire?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 20092
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:50 am

ccharles wrote:Thanks for the info. If the "enlightenment" or bodhi is the same than what are the differences?


viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9747&p=149864&#p149864
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9747&p=149864&#p149866
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1635&p=21902&#p21902
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006
Location: Cambodia

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:51 am

There is a nice article: Between Arhat and Bodhisattva - Finding the Perfect Balance (guess that the Buddhahood stands often for the supercream ideal of liberator (which is mentioned in the term of Bodhisattva and fits well to western ideas of compassion)

Don’t be an arahant, don’t be a bodhisattva, don’t be anything at all—if you are anything at all you will suffer.” —Ajahn Chah
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

whynotme
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:52 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby whynotme » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:56 am

Also here:
Arahants, Bodhisattvas, and Buddhas by bhikkhu Bodhi

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ttvas.html

I don't fully agree with bhikkhu Bodhi, but I find that he has some interesting points. On the arahants and buddhas, I have this simile:

Before Issac Newton found out that F=ma no one knew it. After he found out F=ma, he taught that to everyone. What he taught is the most important thing. He went through many mistakes to find out that formula. Now the way is already opened, no need to reinvent the wheel.

IMO, the bodhisattva is exactly like that. Yes, there is a way to become the Buddha similar to there is a way to become Issac Newton, or someone the first in something, simply because it is a historical fact.

And after found out the truth, no way the Buddha would teach about the bodhisattva way, it is similar to in no way Issac Newton would teach others to follow all of his experiments and mistakes, just to know F=ma.
E.g Issac Newton maybe tried F=ma/2 or F=mv, etc.. and then found out all of those are false. Finally, he would simply teach that F=ma, because only it is worth to mention. Like that, the Buddha only teaches about suffering and how to end it, he would never teach about the bodhisattva way. That's why no one can find the teachings about the bodhisattva way in the Nikaya.

So my conclusion is that, there is a bodhisattva way, but no way it is a clear way like someone can point out in suttas, it is just random walking. The Buddha, like Issac Newton or every inventor, tried many way before the invention, when he had not found the eightfold path. Some lives, he practiced and taught the way to devas world, some lives he tried the way to brahma world. Some lives he was maybe a Christian, a atheist, who knows? He just tried his best in every situations out there, sought all guides and advice available at the moment. And still, all of that is inferior to the final teaching after he got enlightenment like every beta version is inferior to the final formula F=ma.

All the teaching claimed from Buddha's mouth about the bodhisattva way are false, the bodhisattva way is the hidden way because of the reasons above. If you like that way, let yourself be prepared, you need much more than the official false guides from the suttas (coz there isn't any).

Regards
Please stop following me

Nyana
Posts: 2227
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:56 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby Nyana » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:01 pm

ccharles wrote:Is there a path to Buddhahood, rather than Arhatship outlined in Theravada?

Yes. It's explained in A Treatise on the Pāramīs by the Theravāda commentator Ācariya Dhammapāla.

ccharles wrote:Well I'm not to grounded on the differences honestly, however I've read that "Buddhahood" is the highest form of enlightenment, and I am interested in possibly taking that path. If you can share your knowledge on the differences as well I would greatly appreciate it.

Yes, a buddha's awakening is unsurpassable and perfect (anuttarāsammāsambodhi) and surpasses the awakening of a disciple (sāvakabodhi). For example, the Paṭisambhidāmagga explains the following knowledge and abilities that a buddha has developed which are not developed by arahant disciples:

  • knowledge of the penetration of other beings' faculties
  • knowledge of other beings' biases and underlying tendancies
  • knowledge of the twin miracle*
  • knowledge of the attainment of great compassion
  • omniscience & unobstructed knowledge

    *i.e. the ability to produce fire and water from various parts of the body, as well as walk amid an aura of colors while a created image of his body sits or lies down, etc.

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 20092
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:04 pm

Ñāṇa wrote:
ccharles wrote:Is there a path to Buddhahood, rather than Arhatship outlined in Theravada?

Yes. It's explained in A Treatise on the Pāramīs by the Theravāda commentator Ācariya Dhammapāla.

ccharles wrote:Well I'm not to grounded on the differences honestly, however I've read that "Buddhahood" is the highest form of enlightenment, and I am interested in possibly taking that path. If you can share your knowledge on the differences as well I would greatly appreciate it.

Yes, a buddha's awakening is unsurpassable and perfect (anuttarāsammāsambodhi) and surpasses the awakening of a disciple (sāvakabodhi). For example, the Paṭisambhidāmagga explains the following knowledge and abilities that a buddha has developed which are not developed by arahant disciples:

  • knowledge of the penetration of other beings' faculties
  • knowledge of other beings' biases and underlying tendancies
  • knowledge of the twin miracle*
  • knowledge of the attainment of great compassion
  • omniscience & unobstructed knowledge

    *i.e. the ability to produce fire and water from various parts of the body, as well as walk amid an aura of colors while a created image of his body sits or lies down, etc.
The suttas, however, paint a bit of a different picture.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

Nyana
Posts: 2227
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:56 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby Nyana » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:00 pm

tiltbillings wrote:The suttas, however, paint a bit of a different picture.

Your interpretation of the suttas may paint a bit of a different picture. If so, your interpretation differs from that of the ancient Theravāda tradition.

Tom
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:50 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006

Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby Tom » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:50 pm

Ñāṇa wrote:
ccharles wrote:Is there a path to Buddhahood, rather than Arhatship outlined in Theravada?

Yes. It's explained in A Treatise on the Pāramīs by the Theravāda commentator Ācariya Dhammapāla.

ccharles wrote:Well I'm not to grounded on the differences honestly, however I've read that "Buddhahood" is the highest form of enlightenment, and I am interested in possibly taking that path. If you can share your knowledge on the differences as well I would greatly appreciate it.

Yes, a buddha's awakening is unsurpassable and perfect (anuttarāsammāsambodhi) and surpasses the awakening of a disciple (sāvakabodhi). For example, the Paṭisambhidāmagga explains the following knowledge and abilities that a buddha has developed which are not developed by arahant disciples:

  • knowledge of the penetration of other beings' faculties
  • knowledge of other beings' biases and underlying tendancies
  • knowledge of the twin miracle*
  • knowledge of the attainment of great compassion
  • omniscience & unobstructed knowledge

    *i.e. the ability to produce fire and water from various parts of the body, as well as walk amid an aura of colors while a created image of his body sits or lies down, etc.
If one had already successfully made the aspiration to become a Buddha in the presence of a Buddha in a past life, how would one know? If one has not done that, is there a path one can take to eventually meet a Buddha in a future life, so he can then successfully make the aspiration?


Return to “Open Dhamma”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests