jhana required?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: jhana required?

Postby ground » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:49 am


User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: jhana required?

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:09 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

hermitwin
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:35 pm

Re: jhana required?

Postby hermitwin » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:36 am


User avatar
Viscid
Posts: 930
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:55 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: jhana required?

Postby Viscid » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:00 pm

Also from Shankman and Thanissaro in "The Experience of Samadhi: An In-depth Exploration of Buddhist Meditation"

RS: There are examples in the suttas of people attaining at least some level of deep insight of awakening apparently without jhāna or deep meditation practices.

AT: These are the cases where people gain awakening while listening to teachings. But we don't know what their minds were doing as they sat there listening. Usually the teaching was pointing directly to something going on in their minds, so they started observing their minds, entered concentration, and gained release.

RS: There are teachers who tend to shy away from jhāna as being not necessary at all and even a potential trap.

AT: The Buddha wasn't one of them. There are some people who tend to be psychologically unstable and have to be very careful about how they handle states of concentration, but in general, if you have right view about jhāna, it's not dangerous at all.
Now there are some people who say jhāna isn't necessary, that it can be a hindrance because you can become attached to the experiences and mistake the aruppas for Nibbāna. But there are lots of things you can mistake for Nibbāna. If you're doing what you think is vipassana and you hit, say, a state of nonperception-- you may think that's cessation, the end of suffering. But the danger doesn't lie in the state. It's in how you interpret it. No matter what your technique, if you're the sort of person who tends to overinterpret your attainment, you're going to hear in that direction no matter what. Some people tend to be very good at denial, they're good at not seeing their own defilements, and they can use the one-pointed kind of jhāna to exacerbate the problem. But they can also do that with any of the vipassana techniques.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: jhana required?

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:07 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

whynotme
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:52 am

Re: jhana required?

Postby whynotme » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:57 am

Please stop following me

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: jhana required?

Postby ground » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:57 am


User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: jhana required?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:08 am

Indeed, which also has no effects on what the Buddha claimed of being the only door.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: jhana required?

Postby ground » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:27 am


User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: jhana required?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:01 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: jhana required?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:50 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: jhana required?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:21 am

yawares post in regard of might bring some more oil to keep the topic rolling on.

"...Such a meditator is also called a "dry insight worker" [sukkhavipassaka] because he develops insight without the "moisture" of the jhaanas." sure not many like it dry.

Is jhana always jhana or sometimes just jhana?
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

whynotme
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:52 am

Re: jhana required?

Postby whynotme » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:09 am

Please stop following me

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: jhana required?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:20 pm

Hi Why Not Me,
I am not 100% sure what you are saying exactly I am affraid, but it has been a long day for me.

One issue with Jhanas is what it exactly means, there are texts within the suttas which have either a low or high bar for it to be called Jhana, but one thing is for sure the qualities are present. it is only when we get to the Commentaries (I am not sure about the Abhidhamma) that it is consistently on the high bar, and some argue it is higher than/different from that of the suttas.

But we have to bare in mind that the middle way taught contains only one definition for sammasamadhi not any of the others, although there are places where the definition changes. as I pointed out earlier the Jhana can be seen as the culmination of practices which develop concentration, not that they are the only form of concentration.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

theY
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:07 pm
Contact:

Re: jhana required?

Postby theY » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:35 pm

Hello, all.

Atthakathā + the most of sutta: required*.

Tika: excellent, but not be necessary.

Netti subject:
-taṇhācaritta**-- excellent, but not be necessary.
-diṭṭhicaritta--required.

Everything have be clear by netti subject.

note:
*In my case Jhāna=Upacāra and Appanā.
**Twice caritta for in-sign meditation, not six caritta for samatha meditation.
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.


Return to “Samatha Bhāvana”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine