Rebirth in clasical theravada

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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby Ben » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:01 am

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Ben,

I'm posting a PDF version of your file, in case that's helpful to someone...

The introduction by Thanissaro Bhikkhu to his translation of MN60 http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html is also quite helpful.

Metta
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Thanks Mike

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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:59 am

Hi Mike, Ben, Dhammanando &All
I didn't even think of A2I for any notes etc, but then again I only ever look on their for Agahn Geoffs Esseys or the Suttas but the sutta study pdf is on page 2 of MN74 if you are interested!

I will have a look at the Rtf file this afternoon after work,

and Thanks Dhammanando probably the better reason than the strictly clasical one I thoughtit was, there I co making ass u me

WM
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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby Jechbi » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:03 pm

Peter wrote: And I seem to recall the conditions for right view arising is to associate with good people and hear the true Dhamma

Thanks, Peter. Nice post.

One reason I appreciate rebirth discussions is that they seem to orbit around the notion of samma ditthi. One reason I'm sometimes frustrated with rebirth discussions is that they often fail to touch down on the notion of samma ditthi. But this seems to be the crucial, underlying question: What are the causes and conditions of samma ditthi? I think it's worthwhile to examine our assumptions about this in rebirth discussions, particularly if we regard the faithful acceptance of pm rebirth as a form of samma ditthi.

If there's a sutta or commentarial reference to the quote above, I hope someone can paste it here.

:namaste:
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby cooran » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:24 pm

Jechbi asked: What are the causes and conditions of samma ditthi?


Right view
"Friend, how many conditions are there for the arising of right view?"
"Friend, there are two conditions for the arising of right view: the voice of another and appropriate attention. These are the two conditions for the arising of right view."
"And assisted by how many factors does right view have awareness-release as its fruit & reward, and discernment-release as its fruit & reward?"
"Assisted by five factors, right view has awareness-release as its fruit & reward, and discernment-release as its fruit & reward. There is the case where right view is assisted by virtue, assisted by learning, assisted by discussion, assisted by tranquility, assisted by insight. Assisted by these five factors, right view has awareness-release as its fruit & reward, and discernment-release as its fruit & reward."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

metta
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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby cooran » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:49 pm

Hello all,

I've always found Bhikkhu Bodhi's explanations of benefit:

Chapter on Right View (Samma Ditthi) - The Noble Eightfold Path - Bhikkhu Bodhi
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... d.html#ch2

metta
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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby Jechbi » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:14 am

Chris wrote:"Friend, there are two conditions for the arising of right view: the voice of another and appropriate attention. These are the two conditions for the arising of right view."

Thank you, Chris. It seems that the method for arriving at right view with regard to rebirth is (if I understand correctly) to:
1) hear the truth, and
2) attend appropriately.

And we have specific instructions here for how to attend appropriately.

That's a lot more straightforward than what I stated earlier in this thread. And I can see how it might take some time to arrive at right view regarding rebirth, depending on how one attends.

Metta
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby kc2dpt » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:35 pm

Jechbi wrote:
Chris wrote:"Friend, there are two conditions for the arising of right view: the voice of another and appropriate attention. These are the two conditions for the arising of right view."

1) hear the truth, and
2) attend appropriately.
...
I can see how it might take some time to arrive at right view regarding rebirth, depending on how one attends.

And depending what one hears. We see how on these internet forums all sorts of teachings are proposed. This leaves the listener confused as to which to attend.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby Jechbi » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:18 pm

Peter wrote:And depending what one hears. We see how on these internet forums all sorts of teachings are proposed. This leaves the listener confused ...

Indeed. I suspect this papañca of ever-conflicting views falls more under the category of (2) appropriate attention (that is to say, inappropriate attention) than under the category of (1) hearing. Because we've already heard, so the seed is planted (1). Now it's a matter of watering it and letting it grow (2). That won't happen if we keep on poking at the dirt.

"He attends appropriately, This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress... This is the way leading to the cessation of stress."


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