Robe wearing technics

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Robe wearing technics

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:37 am

I am not sure, but it seems that there are two general technics to wear the upper robe.

One seems to be used when going outside, turning the short side ends of the fabric into a role and turn it over the left arm over the sholder. The other general used technic which leaves the right sholder free seems to be used when teaching or inside the monastery (away from public).

The secound reqires a belt to close the left body side and hinder the robe lying on the left sholder to fall. Especially the secound technic does not seem very "naturally" to me even it is nice to adjust if one has the nessesary equipments.
The usually use of the "manager - jacket" under the robe might be the reason of usually wearing technics today.

I guess there are serval technics how to prepair the robe. Does somebody have more informations about the wearing of robes?

One more question is about the allowed noose and string on the lower corners of the robe (upper and under robe?). What is it's use? Maybe it indicates a different wearing style.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Robe wearing technics

Postby DAWN » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:35 am

Thanks you Hanzze for this topic,

I would like to know it too, but we must to know that wearing a bhikkhu robe without being bhikkhu is no-good for this one who wear it. Bit just for knowing a technical aspect of wearing, seems to me very interessant for those who will try to ordain in the future.
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Re: Robe wearing technics

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:44 am

Maybe an additional question: what is a Bhikkhu robe and what is just a robe?

Handed back by a preceptor?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Robe wearing technics

Postby appicchato » Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:42 am

Hi...

Regarding these questions:

There is no belt required (nor allowed) to hold the robe in place when the right shoulder is exposed...but there is a sash used when wearing a sangkhati (another (folded) robe worn over the left shoulder, right shoulder exposed, and attired this way can be worn outside the temple)...it's (the style of wearing) called 'hom dong' (Thai)...

The 'noose and string' is simply a means of keeping the lower parts of the outer robe together...usually (but not necessarily) found on robes of better quality only...and not a requirement...

There is no difference between a 'Bhikkhu robe' and 'just a robe'...one and the same...
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Re: Robe wearing technics

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:50 am

Thanks a lot for your answers. Does the picture show the different between a sash and a belt (the use is like a belt)?

Image
"There is no belt required (nor allowed)..." I thought so but wondered in regard of the using (not so much how the piece of support is called)
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Robe wearing technics

Postby DAWN » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:00 am

Thanks you to your answer Bhante,

I woul like a another question about the robe color, what is the origin of this color?
There is nothing withour a reason, so i am wondering if this color take his origins in the ascetic life in India, when monks and brahmans have no the possibility to wash their robe and body, and staying outdoor all the time, by hot weather, ascetics sweating a lot, and their robe take a marron/orange color ?

Is it the reason? or there is one another?
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Re: Robe wearing technics

Postby appicchato » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:17 am

Hanzze wrote:Does the picture show the different between a sash and a belt (the use is like a belt)?


Your question seems kind of cryptic to me but if I had to guess what you mean I would say yes, the monks pictured are wearing their robes 'hom dong'...
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Re: Robe wearing technics

Postby appicchato » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:28 am

DAWN wrote:...what is the origin of this color?


Haven't a clue...in Thailand I've seen at least ten shades of robes, ranging from international orange to the dark brown...the only connection I've heard of concerns the dark brown ones and they're usually associated with forest monks...but not necessarily so...I wear a dark brown robe but live in a town...

Also related is the manner in which robes used to be (and sometimes still are) dyed with the (boiling of the) bark/wood of the jackfruit tree...depending upon the method used different shades of brown will determine the color of the robe...
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Re: Robe wearing technics

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:32 am

appicchato wrote:
Hanzze wrote:Does the picture show the different between a sash and a belt (the use is like a belt)?


Your question seems kind of cryptic to me but if I had to guess what you mean I would say yes, the monks pictured are wearing their robes 'hom dong'...

So there is a support (to keep the robe closed on the left side) alowed (belt in form of a sash), which was the reason (in regard of belt) why I asked if that is just a modern technic.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Robe wearing technics

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:52 am

appicchato wrote:
DAWN wrote:...what is the origin of this color?


Haven't a clue...in Thailand I've seen at least ten shades of robes, ranging from international orange to the dark brown...the only connection I've heard of concerns the dark brown ones and they're usually associated with forest monks...but not necessarily so...I wear a dark brown robe but live in a town...

Also related is the manner in which robes used to be (and sometimes still are) dyed with the (boiling of the) bark/wood of the jackfruit tree...depending upon the method used different shades of brown will determine the color of the robe...


In the comentary of Bhikkhu Ñānadassana's german translation of the Pattimokkha i found this in regard of the color:

Improper colors for robes:
blue, yellow, red, crimson, black and mixed colors [MV. 306]


Would be interesting if mixed colors means different colors on one robe or a monotone color mixed out of different. But I remember there is like often also a list of "I allow..." but don't remember where.

How ever there is a lot of effort in regard of avoiding to wear things which producing causes much harm, even so in regrad of colors (which seems to be forgoten nowaday)
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Robe wearing techniques

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:37 am

appicchato wrote:The 'noose and string' is simply a means of keeping the lower parts of the outer robe together...usually (but not necessarily) found on robes of better quality only...and not a requirement...

It is required. The reason that the Buddha prescribed the use of the toggle and loop was because at one time when the Venerable Ānanda (IIRC) was walking for alms, the wind opened his robe, exposing his naked upper body. He reported the event to the Buddha who prescribed the use of the loop and toggle.
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Re: Robe wearing techniques

Postby Hanzze » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:51 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
appicchato wrote:The 'noose and string' is simply a means of keeping the lower parts of the outer robe together...usually (but not necessarily) found on robes of better quality only...and not a requirement...

It is required. The reason that the Buddha prescribed the use of the toggle and loop was because at one time when the Venerable Ānanda (IIRC) was walking for alms, the wind opened his robe, exposing his naked upper body. He reported the event to the Buddha who prescribed the use of the loop and toggle.

I thought that the wind might be the reason and wind is tricky when wearing something that is just wraped (especially if one has only one hand free - alms). How ever I wonder how it is used practical as they are on the lower coners of the robe.
The lower robe in this case is maybe much more subject to such problems but understandable that it was not used to bring up a sample.

By the way, thanks to all Bhikkhus here who participate thought it is maybe a very intimate issue.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Robe wearing techniques

Postby appicchato » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:37 am

It is required.


Sorry I got that part wrong...due to the fact one never (generally speaking) sees them being utilized (Thailand)...and in addition, are not even sewn into the vast majority of robes worn here...

Yes, this monk uses them... :coffee:
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Re: Robe wearing technics

Postby Hanzze » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:48 am

Here as well, as I asked one time, one could remember having seen such things but if a robe has it they usualy cut it away. They could not answer the question of its need and use.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Robe wearing technics

Postby Orgyen Yangzom » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:30 am

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Re: Robe wearing technics

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:36 am

Thanks a lot for the share :rolleye: I guess I will need to read and image it more then one time.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Robe wearing technics

Postby Hanzze » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:11 am

Sampot.jpg
Sampot.jpg (77.04 KiB) Viewed 1540 times


Just came across a picture of traditional wearing techniques of the so called Sampot which is somehow very similar to the wearing of the under robe here (especial pic 2), while the pic 3 is often adopted when Novices are up to work something.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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