Robe wearing technics

[Hanzze]

I am not sure, but it seems that there are two general technics to wear the upper robe.

One seems to be used when going outside, turning the short side ends of the fabric into a role and turn it over the left arm over the sholder. The other general used technic which leaves the right sholder free seems to be used when teaching or inside the monastery (away from public).

The secound reqires a belt to close the left body side and hinder the robe lying on the left sholder to fall. Especially the secound technic does not seem very "naturally" to me even it is nice to adjust if one has the nessesary equipments.
The usually use of the "manager - jacket" under the robe might be the reason of usually wearing technics today.

I guess there are serval technics how to prepair the robe. Does somebody have more informations about the wearing of robes?

One more question is about the allowed noose and string on the lower corners of the robe (upper and under robe?). What is it's use? Maybe it indicates a different wearing style.

[DAWN]

Thanks you Hanzze for this topic,

I would like to know it too, but we must to know that wearing a bhikkhu robe without being bhikkhu is no-good for this one who wear it. Bit just for knowing a technical aspect of wearing, seems to me very interessant for those who will try to ordain in the future.

[Hanzze]

Maybe an additional question: what is a Bhikkhu robe and what is just a robe?

Handed back by a preceptor?

[appicchato]

Hi...

Regarding these questions:

There is no belt required (nor allowed) to hold the robe in place when the right shoulder is exposed...but there is a sash used when wearing a sangkhati (another (folded) robe worn over the left shoulder, right shoulder exposed, and attired this way can be worn outside the temple)...it's (the style of wearing) called 'hom dong' (Thai)...

The 'noose and string' is simply a means of keeping the lower parts of the outer robe together...usually (but not necessarily) found on robes of better quality only...and not a requirement...

There is no difference between a 'Bhikkhu robe' and 'just a robe'...one and the same...

[Hanzze]

Thanks a lot for your answers. Does the picture show the different between a sash and a belt (the use is like a belt)?


"There is no belt required (nor allowed)..." I thought so but wondered in regard of the using (not so much how the piece of support is called)

[DAWN]

Thanks you to your answer Bhante,

I woul like a another question about the robe color, what is the origin of this color?
There is nothing withour a reason, so i am wondering if this color take his origins in the ascetic life in India, when monks and brahmans have no the possibility to wash their robe and body, and staying outdoor all the time, by hot weather, ascetics sweating a lot, and their robe take a marron/orange color ?

Is it the reason? or there is one another?

[appicchato]

Does the picture show the different between a sash and a belt (the use is like a belt)?

Your question seems kind of cryptic to me but if I had to guess what you mean I would say yes, the monks pictured are wearing their robes 'hom dong'...

[appicchato]

...what is the origin of this color?

Haven't a clue...in Thailand I've seen at least ten shades of robes, ranging from international orange to the dark brown...the only connection I've heard of concerns the dark brown ones and they're usually associated with forest monks...but not necessarily so...I wear a dark brown robe but live in a town...

Also related is the manner in which robes used to be (and sometimes still are) dyed with the (boiling of the) bark/wood of the jackfruit tree...depending upon the method used different shades of brown will determine the color of the robe...

[Hanzze]

Does the picture show the different between a sash and a belt (the use is like a belt)?

Your question seems kind of cryptic to me but if I had to guess what you mean I would say yes, the monks pictured are wearing their robes 'hom dong'...

So there is a support (to keep the robe closed on the left side) alowed (belt in form of a sash), which was the reason (in regard of belt) why I asked if that is just a modern technic.

[Hanzze]

...what is the origin of this color?

Haven't a clue...in Thailand I've seen at least ten shades of robes, ranging from international orange to the dark brown...the only connection I've heard of concerns the dark brown ones and they're usually associated with forest monks...but not necessarily so...I wear a dark brown robe but live in a town...

Also related is the manner in which robes used to be (and sometimes still are) dyed with the (boiling of the) bark/wood of the jackfruit tree...depending upon the method used different shades of brown will determine the color of the robe...

In the comentary of Bhikkhu Ñānadassana's german translation of the Pattimokkha i found this in regard of the color:

Improper colors for robes:
blue, yellow, red, crimson, black and mixed colors [MV. 306]

Would be interesting if mixed colors means different colors on one robe or a monotone color mixed out of different. But I remember there is like often also a list of "I allow..." but don't remember where.

How ever there is a lot of effort in regard of avoiding to wear things which producing causes much harm, even so in regrad of colors (which seems to be forgoten nowaday)

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

The 'noose and string' is simply a means of keeping the lower parts of the outer robe together...usually (but not necessarily) found on robes of better quality only...and not a requirement...

It is required. The reason that the Buddha prescribed the use of the toggle and loop was because at one time when the Venerable Ānanda (IIRC) was walking for alms, the wind opened his robe, exposing his naked upper body. He reported the event to the Buddha who prescribed the use of the loop and toggle.

[Hanzze]

The 'noose and string' is simply a means of keeping the lower parts of the outer robe together...usually (but not necessarily) found on robes of better quality only...and not a requirement...

It is required. The reason that the Buddha prescribed the use of the toggle and loop was because at one time when the Venerable Ānanda (IIRC) was walking for alms, the wind opened his robe, exposing his naked upper body. He reported the event to the Buddha who prescribed the use of the loop and toggle.

I thought that the wind might be the reason and wind is tricky when wearing something that is just wraped (especially if one has only one hand free - alms). How ever I wonder how it is used practical as they are on the lower coners of the robe.
The lower robe in this case is maybe much more subject to such problems but understandable that it was not used to bring up a sample.

By the way, thanks to all Bhikkhus here who participate thought it is maybe a very intimate issue.

[appicchato]

It is required.

Sorry I got that part wrong...due to the fact one never (generally speaking) sees them being utilized (Thailand)...and in addition, are not even sewn into the vast majority of robes worn here...

Yes, this monk uses them...

[Hanzze]

Here as well, as I asked one time, one could remember having seen such things but if a robe has it they usualy cut it away. They could not answer the question of its need and use.

[Orgyen Yangzom]

I am not sure, but it seems that there are two general technics to wear the upper robe.

One seems to be used when going outside, turning the short side ends of the fabric into a role and turn it over the left arm over the sholder. The other general used technic which leaves the right sholder free seems to be used when teaching or inside the monastery (away from public).

The secound reqires a belt to close the left body side and hinder the robe lying on the left sholder to fall. Especially the secound technic does not seem very "naturally" to me even it is nice to adjust if one has the nessesary equipments.
The usually use of the "manager - jacket" under the robe might be the reason of usually wearing technics today.

I guess there are serval technics how to prepair the robe. Does somebody have more informations about the wearing of robes?

One more question is about the allowed noose and string on the lower corners of the robe (upper and under robe?). What is it's use? Maybe it indicates a different wearing style.

As there are many different traditions, styles and methods of wearing the Buddhas Robes then this is just my idea from examining, researching and experimenting with them. I have used the Tibetan style for 3 years as a Nun but transitioned to Yogini and now am some what free to get back to basics as far as is possible so have made a set of rag robes according to the earliest tradition but still in keeping with my lineage regarding colours for Yogis so I don't offend any one or have them mistake me for a nun. What is important is that the robes are worn for the right reasons with pure mind. For more on this then it can be looked up online.

So regarding the noose and string which seems to have fallen into disuse which puzzled me too, when wrapping the under skirt with the two sides together and folded around the lower body it holds these edges together so they don't blow open and when in an extremely cold climate or ill then it can be tied as a liner into a heavy outer waist skirt. If overlapped across the front of the body then the lower ties become redundant.

Regarding the purpose of ties on the upper and outer robes I have found that when used as bedding the upper robe ties into the outer robe as a sheet which can then all be folded in half length wise with enough at the foot to tuck under and enough at the head to cover it when cold with the opening on the right side. This way the foot end is always worn on the left side of the body while the clean head end is on the right when sitting or standing, and when waking one just needs to sit straight up from the right side and pull the robes over the shoulders and across the lap to meditate. When wearing both upper and outer together then it can be quite heavy and slip down, so both the opposite lower ties can be tied together over the left wrist and the weight then falls on the left arm, which if needed can then be lifted up and rested over the left shoulder to free the left hand or when it is hot and also this way with the upper robe tied into the outer, the body never soils the inside of the outer robe.

Hope this helps and doesn't offend or confuse any one.

[Hanzze]

Thanks a lot for the share I guess I will need to read and image it more then one time.

[Hanzze]

Sampot.jpg (77.04 KiB) Viewed 942 times

Just came across a picture of traditional wearing techniques of the so called Sampot which is somehow very similar to the wearing of the under robe here (especial pic 2), while the pic 3 is often adopted when Novices are up to work something.