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Should sex be demonized so much? - Dhamma Wheel

Should sex be demonized so much?

A place to discuss health and fitness, healthy diets. A fit body makes for a fit mind.
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manas
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Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby manas » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:32 am

This topic will only be of relevance to laypersons who are not yet willing or able to keep complete and utter celibacy. As laypersons, complete and utter celibacy is not required of us. It is ok for us to engage in sex life, so long as it conforms to the restrictions given in the suttas, which most decent people would agree with anyway (partner should be of correct age, not already with another, etc).

I have noticed in myself and other Buddhists, a kind of underlying assumption that sex pleasure is inherently 'bad' or 'unwholesome'. In my case, I got this neurotic notion from earlier Christian conditioning, and not from Buddhism, but I must say that Buddhist ideas about sex did not do much to overturn it. It is only recently that I realized that I have been mistaken for many, many years. Sex is not bad or sinful. It's just another aspect of Nature, just like eating and sleeping. Sex is how Nature replicates itself, that's all. Neither bad nor good, but morally neutral.

I put this topic here in the wellness' topic because along with my letting go of beating myself up for having perfectly natural and understandable desires in the course of having this physical human body, comes the understanding of how much harm I did to myself previously, by feeling a sense of failure every time I would 'give in' to sex desires. The guilt and shame around sex must be a great cause of mental and emotional illness in society, because it creates a terrible conflict in the average person of not ever being able to live up to their 'ideals'. (Until one reaches anagami - which is a very lofty and faraway goal, however!)

Where sex can be harmful, as I now understand it, is in the loss of life-force with every ejaculation of a man. There are literally millions of sperm cells thrown out of the body per ejaculation, and the body imbues the semen with the life-force needed to start a new life. This is why we can feel depleted and tired if we ejaculate too much. But there is actually a way to engage in sex pleasure without this loss of energy. It is by drawing that energy upwards, instead of letting it flow out of the loins. Most men conflate orgasm with ejaculation, but they are actually not one and the same thing. It is possible to have orgasm without losing any semen. There are exercizes that can be learned whereby, at the moment of orgasm, the orgasmic energy is channeled upwards, flowing up the back and ultimately to the brain, then down again through the front of the body, in what is called the 'Microcosmic Orbit'. I believe that this art should be learned by any layperson who is still sexually active, so that they can stop the terrible wastage and depletion of energy (chi, life-force, prana) and recirculate it into their own bodies, to the benefit of health. I cannot see how it would contravene any law of dhamma to do so.

with metta.

:anjali:
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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m0rl0ck
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby m0rl0ck » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:51 am

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Hanzze
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:53 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

Mawkish1983
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby Mawkish1983 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:45 am


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DAWN
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby DAWN » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:30 am

Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...

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cooran
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby cooran » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:30 am

Hello manas, all,

This article may be of interest:

Buddhism and Sex by M. O'C. Walshe
Preface
Buddhism and Sex
The Bhikkhu
Ancient India
The Lay Buddhist
Sexual Pleasure and the Concept of "Sin"
Marriage
Sex Outside Marriage.
Sex, Religion, and Anti-Religion
What Sex is Really All About
Sex and Rebirth
Sex and the Stages on the Path
Gaining Control
Conclusion

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el225.html

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Hanzze
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:56 am

Reading the conglusion I have to rember a quote of Ahjan Fuang:

"When we see Hindus worshiping Siva lingas it looks strange to us, but actually everyone in the world worships the Siva linga — i.e., they worship sex, simply that the Hindus are the only ones who are open about it. Sex is the creator of the world. The reason we're all born is because we worship the Siva linga in our hearts."
Last edited by Hanzze on Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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tiltbillings
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:57 am


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Hanzze
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:08 am

Well... as long as it makes "happy". Or some sensations of being released from stress. We cross the path often, put are atteched to do not lose our street.

Another saying of him:

"Sensual pleasure is like a drug: One taste and you get addicted. They say that with heroin it's hard to break the habit, but this is even worse. It goes deep, right into the bone. It's what made us get born in the first place, and has kept us circling through birth and death for aeons and aeons. There's no medicine you can take to break the habit, to wash it out of your system, aside from the medicine of the Buddha's teachings."
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Caraka
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby Caraka » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:17 am

Your topic reminds me of a story I heard about how old schools educating about masturbation. They literally explained 'Do not masturbate! Cause when you do you leak brainfluid. The seemen from your masturbation comes from your brain, and the more you masturbate the stupider you will get'.

So Dawn is pinpointing something important here. You can, depending on isolated statements (facts or not), make the truth goes either way. Thus missing the whole picture.

Actual I think sex is not a problem, masturbation is not a problem, and none of it is a sin. It's as you wrote, it's a part of nature, your body, and your body craving for pleasure. So, if it is our body craving that causes sex, then how should this be related to the non-sex life of monks?

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Hanzze
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:33 am

Would there be much sex in the brain if there have not been mastubation in the youth? I guess that this explaining was not that bad at all but we use intelect to overbridge the message.

Can you explain what craving of the body should be? The body is able to do so?

And to beware of misunderstanding, its not only a matter of being a monk that people abstain from sexual (inter)actions. If one likes to talk in allowed and unallowed mearues, it is also allowed for layman/woman to abstain from it, to take this precept.
Last edited by Hanzze on Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Should Demons be Sexed so much?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:41 am

Yes, even in the compassionate teachings of Buddhism, sex is unwholesome. It is not possible to engage in or even to think about enjoying sex without an unwholesome mind rooted in greed (lobha mūla citta).

However, not all unwholesome kamma (akusala) is evil kamma (pāpa), leading to the lower realms. Only sexual misconduct is immoral kamma.

Treat fire with the respect that it deserves and you won't get burned.

Piya Tan's article on the explains the seven bonds of sensuality.
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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Hanzze
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:56 am

Thanks for sharing this sutta.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Dan74
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby Dan74 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:53 am

A monastic of many decades once told me that sensuality does not go away, you just experience it differently, and express it differently.

Maybe this is the key - to bring practice to sensuality. I know I get jealous of the chocolate bar when I watch my wife eat it. So sensuality can be experienced in many different ways and this may take some pressure off the sexual act that many of us men in particular think is the only way we can experience life as sensual beings.

There are many angles on this and many ways to perceive it. Especially once one is no longer completely enthralled by sex. In any case letting go of the guilt is certainly a good move, manas!

:thumbsup:
_/|\_

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Ben
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby Ben » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:59 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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Hanzze
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:24 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Dan74
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby Dan74 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:29 am

_/|\_

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Ben
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby Ben » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:33 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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Hanzze
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:49 am

What is easier to observe, something that is very present or something that is very subtile? I guess from the raw to the fine is the normal way. The silas (to a good level of perfection) are just the raw mindfulness objects.

I guess the require of understanding the causes and effects are very needed. Just produced a spot on my cloth while running after sensuality ("just" coffee!) but need to think how to get the spot cleaned without having/using cleaning agent. We have very less problems if we are mindful. At the beginning, in the middle and at the end.

Not to think how many actions in our life are co-denpendent and conected with the strive for sex.

Of cause it would be good to wear a sticker "Caution! I am practicing chasteness, so keep distance" while in training, but I guess that is also with everybody who undertakes a drug withdrawal treatment.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Caraka
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Postby Caraka » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:22 pm

I was reading about Ten Immoral Kammas and Their Effects (), and thinking about your post. It states:

The evil effects of sexual misconduct are: having many enemies, getting an unsuitable spouse, rebirth as a woman, or rebirth as a transsexual.

I must say, I found this a bit problematic cause it indicates woman, transsexual (I guess this statement also goes for all flavour of sexuality execpt beeing a hetrosexual man) are lower beeings than a man :shrug:


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