Should sex be demonized so much?

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Mr Man
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Post by Mr Man »

tiltbillings wrote:While the body may no longer be able, that does not mean that the desire os not there.
I don't think it is there to nearly the same degree and I think it is muddled with a lot of other ideas. Although I'm sure there are exceptions.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Post by tiltbillings »

Mr Man wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:While the body may no longer be able, that does not mean that the desire os not there.
I don't think it is there to nearly the same degree and I think it is muddled with a lot of other ideas. Although I'm sure there are exceptions.
In other words, you really do not know. You are guessing.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Mr Man
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Post by Mr Man »

tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:While the body may no longer be able, that does not mean that the desire os not there.
I don't think it is there to nearly the same degree and I think it is muddled with a lot of other ideas. Although I'm sure there are exceptions.
In other words, you really do not know. You are guessing.
No I'm not guessing. Is your sex drive the same as it was when you were 19? Do you fantasize about sex now as much as you did say 30 years ago?
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tiltbillings
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Post by tiltbillings »

Mr Man wrote: No I'm not guessing. Is your sex drive the same as it was when you were 19? Do you fantasize about sex now as much as you did say 30 years ago?
You are still guessing.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Mr Man
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Post by Mr Man »

tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote: No I'm not guessing. Is your sex drive the same as it was when you were 19? Do you fantasize about sex now as much as you did say 30 years ago?
You are still guessing.
Are you guessing? I'm deducing.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Post by tiltbillings »

Mr Man wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote: No I'm not guessing. Is your sex drive the same as it was when you were 19? Do you fantasize about sex now as much as you did say 30 years ago?
You are still guessing.
Are you guessing? I'm deducing.
In other words, guessing.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Mr Man
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Post by Mr Man »

tiltbillings wrote:In other words, guessing.
Don't you fancy answering the questions I put to you? Is my "guesswork" off the mark?
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Dan74
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Post by Dan74 »

I certainly don't have as much sexual desire as I did when I was 19 and I am not quite 40 yet!

I'd like to attribute this to my practice and all the attainments, but I suspect Mr Man might have a point about the age...

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/loss-o ... ve/AN01431
_/|\_
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Hanzze
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Post by Hanzze »

m0rl0ck wrote:Aversion is attachment.
Does "sex is not wholesome" increases aversion? Maybe its better to say, attachment leads to aversion, suffering and death.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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tiltbillings
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Post by tiltbillings »

Mr Man wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:In other words, guessing.
Don't you fancy answering the questions I put to you? Is my "guesswork" off the mark?
No. Anything personal about me is none of your business. There is no argument that age can and does diminish sexual feelings, but that does not mean that sexual feelings cannot be and not quite strong in older people. You ae the one who talked about "life force."
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Hanzze
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Post by Hanzze »

One is just able to compair his own experianses (which requires to remember) while argue with what other told does not make sense as long as one does not prove it amoung him self. Only here there is the possibility to gain understanding. Using tellings of elders and wise as a frame of compairing is how ever useful, but no need to addopt it without a own prove.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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manas
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Post by manas »

I appreciate all the replies.

I wish to comment on something. (Sorry for my lack of intellectual or should I say scholarly vigour at present. I have no more Internet or even computer at home anymore, and so have to do this from my local library, where I feel surrounded not just by other people (not that they are looking over my shoulder, but still...) but also where being immersed in wi-fi EMF fields is making me feel a bit dizzy right now).

At the moment of orgasm, the 'animal' aspect of our nature wants to push that energy outwards, downwards. To resist this urge and retain the semen in the body, drawing the energy inwards & upwards instead is actually reversing this usual course of events. It requires much self control, a certain measure of detachment and a lot of awareness of mind and body.

I agree with the member who said is needs to be done with the right instruction. There are a few masters around but one needs to be careful to find a properly qualified one. As this is a forum for the Buddha-Dhamma, which represents truths higher and more sublime than merely learning how to recirculate energy and thus live a longer and much healthier life, I hesitated to mention where I am getting this information from, but so long as no one thinks I am advertising, it is from Mantak Chia, a Taoist Master. He teaches this art in a completely non-religious way, by the way - he is actually a Christian by faith. It's just about energy. Anyone can learn to do it, religion doesn't come into it.

One thing I read was that one must not misuse the sexual power one can gain from this practice. It is intended to save the vital forces and recirculate them so that this energy can be put to good use, ultimately making one not just healthier but also a more loving partner to one's wife and a more helpful member of society. If one goes about having insubstantial relationships based upon sex alone, using women and abandoning them like a commodity, that is a misuse of the art, according to Chia. Maybe that is why it was traditionally not taught widely, but only to a few selected persons.

The truths of impermance and self-less-ness of all phenomena (in the sense of the upanishadic 'atman') are still much more earth-shattering than this, but I wanted to share how freeing it is to be letting go of the guilt and shame regarding sexual pleasure. I know it is impermanent and not-self. It is just feeling, it comes and goes. But somehow I feel as though a huge burden has been lifted from me. I am no longer at war with myself. Sex is not sinful, it is just a force of Nature. But one should know how to engage in it for one's benefit, rather than for one's harm and depletion. That is what Taoist sexual practices are for.

And regarding that warning someone gave about 'danger', as I said the only danger is if one misuses the powers that one can gain over time, having one-night stands etc (a moral danger). But that is caused by the person, not by the practice. There is no physical danger from retaining the seed. There can be some discomfort if one does it incorrectly, but not danger.

metta.
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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Ben
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Post by Ben »

Thanks Manas.
Sorry to hear that you have no computer at home any more.
As for WiFi EMS - they are everywhere and you've been basking in the radiance of similar electro-magnetic radiation since you were conceived. Your lightheadedness, I would hazzard to guess, is probably due to something much more gross - food, fluid intake, air, any chronic conditions you have. Anyway, that is by the by.
As for the Taoist approach to reticulating the sexual energy...
Having had some involvement for a few years with the shinto/taoist influenced teacher of macrobiotics, shiatsu and aikido from my distant past, I can assure you that I have not looked back since taking Dhamma seriously. "Working" with sexual drive whether it be through Taoist practice, kundalini or Tantra, can just be an elaborate form of indulging/grasping/craving.
If you really want to learn how to deal with your craving as well as your aversion effectively, then I cannot recommend highly enough regular residential retreats of vipassana meditation supported by ongoing practice in daily life.
kind regards,

Ben
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manas
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Post by manas »

Hi Ben,

I did say at the outset that this topic was for laymen who are not (as yet) willing or able to renounce sex pleasure. Of course there will be a measure of 'grasping' as one experiences pleasure rise upward, rather than spurting it out wastefully into the abyss. But that grasping is going to be there in any case. It doesn't disappear until anagami, right? So until then, if one is a layman, and is not yet going to be celibate, then this is a useful *adjunct* to one's Buddhist practice. It is not Enlightenment, but it is on a much higher level than ordinary, animalistic ejaculatory sex. It is a step in the right direction, towards greater self-control and awareness. I never said it could replace the Dhamma though, did I?

kind regards. _/I\_
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Should sex be demonized so much?

Post by tiltbillings »

manas wrote: ordinary, animalistic ejaculatory sex
?

Makes me glad I am not a Toaist if that is their point of view.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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