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Which translation do you prefer: V Thanissaro or V Bodhi's ? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Which translation do you prefer: V Thanissaro or V Bodhi's ?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?

You prefer traductions of Thanissaro Bhikkhu or Bhikkhu Bodhi ?

Thanissaro Bhikkhu
10
36%
Bhikkhu Bodhi
18
64%
 
Total votes: 28

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DAWN
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Re: Which translation do you prefer: V Thanissaro or V Bodhi's ?

Postby DAWN » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:44 pm

Fluidity of Ven Bodhi's speach is a good kamma fruit.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...

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mikenz66
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Re: Which translation do you prefer: V Thanissaro or V Bodhi's ?

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:34 pm

Having thought about this a little, it occurs to me that it might be interesting to discuss in what areas the translations (and footnotes/commentary on the translations) by Vens. Thanissaro and Bodhi disagree. Though they have different writing styles, and pick different words for the translation of Pali terms, both seem to me to take a fairly standard Theravada view on most doctrinal aspects, such as kamma, rebirth, and dependent origination (neither advocate a "one life only" interpretation of dependent origination, for example).

The interpretation of some particular issues, notably anatta http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-su ... tml#anatta and papanca , are the main points of difference that I can recall. Are there others, and do they influence the translation?

:anjali:
Mike

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Which translation do you prefer: V Thanissaro or V Bodhi's ?

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:52 pm

Ven. Thanissaro translates dukha as "stress." Personally, I prefer the more traditional translation of "suffering" or "unsatisfactory."

For readability, I prefer Bhikkhu Bodhi.
Image




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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Which translation do you prefer: V Thanissaro or V Bodhi's ?

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:57 pm

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


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Hanzze
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Re: Which translation do you prefer: V Thanissaro or V Bodhi's ?

Postby Hanzze » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:42 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

Sylvester
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Re: Ven Thanissaro or Ven Bodhi's translation you prefer?

Postby Sylvester » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:58 am


Buckwheat
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Re: Ven Thanissaro or Ven Bodhi's translation you prefer?

Postby Buckwheat » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:41 pm

Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Ven Thanissaro or Ven Bodhi's translation you prefer?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:39 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Sylvester
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Re: Ven Thanissaro or Ven Bodhi's translation you prefer?

Postby Sylvester » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:41 am


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Cittasanto
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Re: Ven Thanissaro or Ven Bodhi's translation you prefer?

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:23 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Sylvester
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Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Ven Thanissaro or Ven Bodhi's translation you prefer?

Postby Sylvester » Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:13 am


danieLion
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Re: Which translation do you prefer: V Thanissaro or V Bodhi's ?

Postby danieLion » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:33 am

They're not comparable in any significant way for several reasons. First, Bodhi tackles collections and is more comprehensive and systematic while Rev. T is all over the place (many here have theorized about why). Second, they agree with each other most of the time (I know because I've read all Rev. T's translations and always read Rev. T's Middle Length Discourses and Connected Discourses translations in tandem with Bodhi's; and I used Rev. T's translations of the Sutta Nipata--among a few others--when I was working my way through Bodhi's talks on it). Third, they borrow from each other (e.g., Bodhi says he followed Rev. T when translating sakkāya-ditthi as "identity view" and Bodhi thanks Rev. T for his consultations in the introductions to his translations of the Majjhimā Nikāya and Samyutta Nikāya--I don't have copies of Bodhi's Long Discourses or Numerical Discourses but I'm willing to bet Bodhi thanks him in those too). Fourth, they both prefer the Pāli and understand that their translations are organic.

Fifth...anyone?

danieLion
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Re: Which translation do you prefer: V Thanissaro or V Bodhi's ?

Postby danieLion » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:49 am

Another reason contrasting them is petty: they're both sceptical of the commentarial tradition. Rev. T has been more consistent with his jabs here and there over the years; but in Bodhi's later talks on the Majjhimā Nikāya and the Sutta Nipata he comes right out and says several times that you can't trust everything in the commentaries.

I PREFER to use them both inductively/counterinductively. The more translations the better.

It would be ideal to know what they (Rev. T and Bodhi) think of each other.
Last edited by danieLion on Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Ven Thanissaro or Ven Bodhi's translation you prefer?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:55 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Sylvester
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Re: Ven Thanissaro or Ven Bodhi's translation you prefer?

Postby Sylvester » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:47 am


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Cittasanto
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Re: Ven Thanissaro or Ven Bodhi's translation you prefer?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:15 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

pulga
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Re: Which translation do you prefer: V Thanissaro or V Bodhi's ?

Postby pulga » Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:41 pm

I imagine Ven. Bodhi must have honed his skill in translating Pali from the earlier translations of Ven. Ñanamoli. Though Ven. Ñanamoli's translations can be a bit wordy, they're extraordinarily accurate grammatically which make them ideal when learning Pali.

But a distinction must be drawn between Ven. Ñanamoli's personal translations and those he meant for publication.

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daverupa
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Re: Which translation do you prefer: V Thanissaro or V Bodhi's ?

Postby daverupa » Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:25 pm


pulga
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Re: Which translation do you prefer: V Thanissaro or V Bodhi's ?

Postby pulga » Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:07 pm


cittaanurakkho
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Re: Which translation do you prefer: V Thanissaro or V Bodhi's ?

Postby cittaanurakkho » Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:16 pm

For me, the choice is not only a matter of whose translation I prefer, but also what is available. Ven. Bodhi did a complete English translation of Majjhima, Samyutta, and soon Anguttara while Ven. Thanissaro only did an anthology. So, for the sutta that Ven. Thanissaro didn’t translate, by default, I like Ven. Bodhi translation better. Also in the mid 90’s the realistic choices for me are either PTS or Ven. Bodhi. Ven. Thanissaro translations at the ATI website was too limited.

As I was beginning to meditate solo, I looked for an alternative translation to Ven. Bodhi for guidance. In this respect, I like Ven. Thanissaro translation better because again it is the only extensive translation available written from the prespective of an experience meditation practitioner. To me, one value of Ven. Thanissaro translation is not only about his perspective of the words of Buddha. But indirectly through his translations and his various self guided study, I kind of get the feels of how he practices, how he structure his practices. From that I learn to structure my own practice. I think this is a kind of knowledge transfer that occurs naturally between a teacher and a deciple who interacted through direct transmission. But in this age where many disciples meditate solo and many learn through reading sutta, translations of sutta from many more experience mediation practitioners would be really helpful.

Walshe did a good job with the Digha. But now that Ven. Bodhi has completed the Anguttara, I think it would round up a great tetralogy if he translated the Digha. This way, there is a complete set of reference to the four major nikayas with a consistent terminology and smooth flow throughout. Digha is so short, shouldn’t take more than a few nights for such a prolific writer.

I am so grateful to both translators for the works they have done. These quality works were not available as short as 20+ years ago. May they get a lof of merit.


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