Path to Buddhahood

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Hanzze
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Post by Hanzze »

Thanks for sharing. It's somehow a little similar to the discussion here.

Is it possible to answer it with yes or no, without the need of a meta-disscussion?

"Is there a path to Buddhahood, rather than Arhatship outlined in Theravada?" or different asked, "Is there a path to Buddhahood outlined in the pali canon (taught and successed by the Buddha, if we take the palicanon as what was taught by him)"

(I guess we do not need to worry that there is no Path to Buddhahood, as there was a Buddha and it did not come so unconditioned.)
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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tiltbillings
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Post by tiltbillings »

Hanzze wrote:Thanks for sharing. It's somehow a little similar to the discussion here.

Is it possible to answer it with yes or no?

"Is there a path to Buddhahood, rather than Arhatship outlined in Theravada?" or different asked, "Is there a path to Buddhahood outlined in the pali canon (taught and successed by the Buddha, if we take the palicanon as what was taught by him)"

(I guess we do not need to worry that there is no Path to Buddhahood, as there was a Buddha and he did not unconditioned.)
After the death of the Buddha a path to buddhahood developed, and that, over time, underwent further refinement, but it was never center stage, and it was never as highly elaborate as the Mahayana version, which, of course, underwent is own dramatic evolution.

as there was a Buddha and he did not unconditioned Huh?!?!?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Nyana
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Post by Nyana »

Hanzze wrote:Thanks for sharing. It's somehow a little similar to the discussion here.

Is it possible to answer it with yes or no, without the need of a meta-disscussion?

"Is there a path to Buddhahood, rather than Arhatship outlined in Theravada?" or different asked, "Is there a path to Buddhahood outlined in the pali canon (taught and successed by the Buddha, if we take the palicanon as what was taught by him)"
Yes. It's explained in A Treatise on the Pāramīs by the Theravāda commentator Ācariya Dhammapāla.
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Hanzze
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Post by Hanzze »

tiltbillings wrote:
as there was a Buddha and he did not unconditioned Huh?!?!?
...come to be one. (very worldly, see it as an very convential expressen)

So we could say,

1. It does not seem that the Buddha wanted his disiples to follow his way but successed them a way he found.

2. And, yes there are also same path to Buddhahood been developed (by third, fourth...) in Theravada Tradion.

So further (if 2 is right), how do those developed Buddhapaths appear, are there good expalinings (to feed a possible desire of the OP).
Ñāṇa wrote:
Hanzze wrote:Thanks for sharing. It's somehow a little similar to the discussion here.

Is it possible to answer it with yes or no, without the need of a meta-disscussion?

"Is there a path to Buddhahood, rather than Arhatship outlined in Theravada?" or different asked, "Is there a path to Buddhahood outlined in the pali canon (taught and successed by the Buddha, if we take the palicanon as what was taught by him)"
Yes. It's explained in A Treatise on the Pāramīs by the Theravāda commentator Ācariya Dhammapāla.
Fast :smile: thanks
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
Nyana
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Post by Nyana »

tiltbillings wrote:Again, for all of that the Buddha clearly stated, as I have shown, that the (sam)bodhi he attained is the (sam)bodhi we can attain, which seems to very strongly preclude omniscience as being a defining characteristic of (sam)bodhi.
Your opinion has a very strong odor of anti-bodhisattvayāna polemics....
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tiltbillings
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Post by tiltbillings »

Ñāṇa wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Again, for all of that the Buddha clearly stated, as I have shown, that the (sam)bodhi he attained is the (sam)bodhi we can attain, which seems to very strongly preclude omniscience as being a defining characteristic of (sam)bodhi.
Your opinion has a very strong odor of anti-bodhisattvayāna polemics....
No, not at all. As I have written, as the suttas I have quoted show, the Buddha stated in various ways: "The (sam)bodhi I attained, you can atain."
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Nyana
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Post by Nyana »

tiltbillings wrote:No, not at all. As I have written, as the suttas I have quoted show, the Buddha stated in various ways: "The (sam)bodhi I attained, you can atain."
The Pāli Nikāyas explicitly relate the narratives of previous buddhas. Arahant disciples don't rediscover the dhamma and start a dispensation. It's quite reasonable, even necessary, for the tradition to specify the distinctions between buddhas and arahant disciples as they have, whether you're willing to acknowledge it or not.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Post by tiltbillings »

Ñāṇa wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:No, not at all. As I have written, as the suttas I have quoted show, the Buddha stated in various ways: "The (sam)bodhi I attained, you can atain."
The Pāli Nikāyas explicitly relate the narratives of previous buddhas. Arahant disciples don't rediscover the dhamma and start a dispensation. It's quite reasonable, even necessary, for the tradition to specify the distinctions between buddhas and arahant disciples as they have, whether you're willing to acknowledge it or not.
That is nice; however, as I have written, and what I have clearly shown by quoting the suttas, is that the Buddha in various, but direct, ways has stated: "The (sam)bodhi I attained, you can attain."
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Nyana
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Post by Nyana »

tiltbillings wrote:That is nice; however, as I have written, and what I have clearly shown by quoting the suttas, is that the Buddha in various, but direct, ways has stated: "The (sam)bodhi I attained, you can attain."
You're just playing the tired sutta-only game that you decry in other instances.
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Hanzze
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Post by Hanzze »

"The (sa)bodhi I attained, you can attain." Arahanthood and Buddhahood as well? Maybe there was so much understanding (maybe modesty), that this question even did not arise.
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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tiltbillings
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Post by tiltbillings »

Ñāṇa wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:That is nice; however, as I have written, and what I have clearly shown by quoting the suttas, is that the Buddha in various, but direct, ways has stated: "The (sam)bodhi I attained, you can attain."
You're just playing the tired sutta-only game that you decry in other instances.
Not at all. i have no problem with the commentaries, etc., but that does not mean I cannot look at the what the suttas have to say about a particular subject.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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tiltbillings
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Post by tiltbillings »

Hanzze wrote:"The (sa)bodhi I attained, you can attain." Arahanthood and Buddhahood as well? Maybe there was so much understanding, that this question even did not arise.
I have no idea what you mean here.
Read this:
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 4&#p149864" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Hanzze
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Post by Hanzze »

"I have no idea what you mean here." could be good covered by "Maybe there was so much understanding (less interest on additional ideas)"

(pejustice of a position one could have taken, could easy mislead and put an idea of intention behind them, which might be different in fact)
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
Nyana
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Post by Nyana »

tiltbillings wrote:Not at all. i have no problem with the commentaries, etc., but that does not mean I cannot look at the what the suttas have to say about a particular subject.
You obviously do have a problem with the commentaries, etc.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Post by tiltbillings »

Hanzze wrote:"I have no idea what you mean here." could be good covered by "Maybe there was so much understanding (less interest on additional ideas)"

(pejustice of a position one could have taken, could easy mislead and put an idea of intention behind them, which might be different in fact)
Still, no idea what you mean here.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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