Abhidhamma View : Self-Doer [Attakaarii]

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Abhidhamma View : Self-Doer [Attakaarii]

Postby yawares » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:23 pm

Dear Members,

:candle: Abhidhamma View : Self-Doer [Attakaarii] :candle:
[Presented by Dr.Tep Sastri @SariputtaDhamma/JTN]


Thanks to Hanzze for introducing "Manual of Buddhism" by Venerable Ledi Sayadaw, who wrote on page 273:

22. Not understanding the Law of Dependent Origination (paticca-samuppada), as declared by the Buddha:
"With Ignorance (avijja) as condition, there arise Volitional Activities (sankhara); with volitional
activities as condition, there arises Consciousness (vinnana); with consciousness as condition, there
arise Mentality-and-Materiality (namarupa; ... ) thus there arises this 'whole mass of ills' dukkhakkhandha."


When one is ignorant of this Law of Causality, one firmly holds the wrong view of karaka-ditthi,
insisting that if there is an action there is a doer, so that materiality and mentality cannot be seen
as distinct phenomena or dhamma, but as some person or being.

http://www.abhidhamma.com/txt_Manuals_of_Buddhism.pdf

The above word "doer" is in the sense of a 'self' or 'atta': the ego-entity perception that is a
consequence of the wrong view, atta-di.t.thi, about a permanent self or soul. But the Buddha's term
'atta-kaarii' --self-doer; initiating being-- does not contradict with the anatta doctrine.

"When there is an element of initiating, are initiating beings [4] clearly discerned?"

"Just so, Venerable Sir."

"So, brahmin, when there is the element of initiating, initiating beings are clearly discerned; of such
beings, this is the self-doer, this, the other-doer.[5]


Translator's Notes:

[4]. Aarabbhavanto sattaa. This phrase is in the plural.

[5]. The sense here would seem to be as follows: We clearly discern initiated actions (in ourselves and
in others); so we clearly discern that there are initiating beings who initiate those actions; and the
"self-doer" and "other-doer" are just particular beings amongst that set of beings (who may be
described, for example, from a subjective or objective perspective, respectively).
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... html#fnt-5

Vocabulary: kaarii (m.), doer. kari : [aor. of karoti] did; acted; made; built.


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Re: Abhidhamma View : Self-Doer [Attakaarii]

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:22 am

That's for the share, I guess it is importand to understand when we think on the so beloved sentence of Buddhagosa to do not loose the way:

"Mere suffering exists, no sufferer is found;

The deeds are, but no doer of the deeds is there;

Nibbāna is, but not the man that enters it;

The path is, but no traveler on it is seen."
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Abhidhamma View : Self-Doer [Attakaarii]

Postby yawares » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:17 pm

Hanzze wrote:That's for the share, I guess it is importand to understand when we think on the so beloved sentence of Buddhagosa to do not loose the way:

"Mere suffering exists, no sufferer is found;

The deeds are, but no doer of the deeds is there;

Nibbāna is, but not the man that enters it;

The path is, but no traveler on it is seen."

Yawares :anjali:
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Re: Abhidhamma View : Self-Doer [Attakaarii]

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:38 pm

Thanks for showing my words again! Correction:
"Thank's for the share, I guess it is importand to understand when we think on the so beloved sentence of Buddhagosa so that we do not lose the way:" as there are many who "throw out the baby with the bath water" and destroy the possibility to make the quintessence real.

So this stanza of Buddhagosa is not really meant to be a point to start.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Abhidhamma View : Self-Doer [Attakaarii]

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:51 am

Maybe good in addition:

d. The possibility of becoming the holder of the view that all things are uncaused or
unconditioned.
If this pubbekata-hetu-ditthi-vada (view of the inefficacy of action) be scrutinized
or thoroughly analysed by the intelligence of wise people, it will be found that,
according to this view, in all fields of actions there is nothing worthy for people to
do but for them to follow the line of least resistance. How? It is in the following
manner: those who hold this view reject all actions that should be done in the
present life and also do not put forth the energy to be exercised by the virtuous.
They also reject the functioning of energy and wisdom.
They maintain that the benefits relating to the present life and those relating to the
next existence as declared by the wise are false. In the minds of those who hold
this wrong view, there cannot arise the mental factors of desire-to-do and energy to
perform all wholesome actions that should be performed by the virtuous. Thus this
view becomes akiriya-ditthi (the wrong view of the uncausedness of existence).
Those who hold this pubbekata-hetu view are, therefore, good for nothing, and
resemble a heap of refuse, or a piece of wood. For the reasons mentioned above,
the Supreme Buddha was able to refute this wrong view.

more to be found in Sammaditthi Dipani, The Manual of Right Views
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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