the great vegetarian debate

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ben » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:49 am

DAWN wrote:...cause meat is a drug...


No, its not.

kind regards,

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Hanzze » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:57 am

For a seller, I guess it needs to be a drug to get a good amount of demand. I am not sure if we need to speak of a need in case of meat.

But that works for vegi-burger as well.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:04 am

Ben wrote:
DAWN wrote:...cause meat is a drug...


No, its not.

kind regards,

Ben


Yes, its addiction.
Why? Because it brings pleasure. All that brings pleasure have addiction like consequence.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:08 am

Hanzze wrote:For a seller, I guess it needs to be a drug to get a good amount of demand. I am not sure if we need to speak of a need in case of meat.

But that works for vegi-burger as well.


Iam sorry i dont fully understande the sebse of your post :embarassed:
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:10 am

DAWN wrote:Yes, its addiction.
Why? Because it brings pleasure. All that brings pleasure have addiction like consequence.


I don't think that is an accurate connection. Anything can be an addiction, including television, gambling, sex, or eating tofu or meat. (All of these might be enjoyable.) This does not mean everything is a drug.

You don't need drugs to survive, but we do need food.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:19 am

David N. Snyder wrote:
DAWN wrote:Yes, its addiction.
Why? Because it brings pleasure. All that brings pleasure have addiction like consequence.


I don't think that is an accurate connection. Anything can be an addiction, including television, gambling, sex, or eating tofu or meat. (All of these might be enjoyable.) This does not mean everything is a drug.

You don't need drugs to survive, but we do need food.


Exectly !
All is drug.
Existance is drug.Life is drug. Drugs brings suffer. Samsara is addicted state of mind.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Hanzze » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:43 am

David N. Snyder wrote:You don't need drugs to survive, but we do need food.

So we need meat to survive?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:06 am

Hanzze wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:You don't need drugs to survive, but we do need food.

So we need meat to survive?

:goodpost:

We don't need meat in our estomach to survive, but animals need that meat on their body to survive.

There is no eny exuse.
Eat meat or wear leather is killing.
Eat or use other animal products is slavery.
Thats all. Stop resirch any exuse, there is no any exuse or condition "to have no kamma" or condition "to not have results of bad kamma". Stop think only about you, there is no only you and your kamma in this world... Stop defend Mara. Please.

Killing is killing
Slavery is slavery

Pay somebody to kill is encourage him to kill. Stop pay for crime.

This pig is agree with me > :pig:
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:12 am

This thread is making me a believer in Oliver Goldsmith's observation that "Every absurdity has a champion to defend it." Carry on, brave Don Quixotes. :popcorn:

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ben » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:57 am

DAWN wrote:This pig is agree with me > :pig:

The pig is not a pig.

And I just ate another vegetarian.
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:18 am

DAWN wrote:
Hanzze wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:You don't need drugs to survive, but we do need food.

So we need meat to survive?

:goodpost:

We don't need meat in our estomach to survive, but animals need that meat on their body to survive.

There is no eny exuse.
Eat meat or wear leather is killing.
Eat or use other animal products is slavery.
Thats all. Stop resirch any exuse, there is no any exuse or condition "to have no kamma" or condition "to not have results of bad kamma". Stop think only about you, there is no only you and your kamma in this world... Stop defend Mara. Please.

Killing is killing
Slavery is slavery

Pay somebody to kill is encourage him to kill. Stop pay for crime.

This pig is agree with me > :pig:

I am sorry but isn't that a red heron/straw-man fallacy mix?
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:29 am

All that is sad.
Sometimes i think that for many peoples buddhism is just some kind hobbie that they can modify what they want and how they want just for save their ego.

It's sad.

Blood is not a sweat, we cant wash it with some soap :toilet:
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ben » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:37 am

DAWN wrote:All that is sad.
Sometimes i think that for many peoples buddhism is just some kind hobbie that they can modify what they want and how they want just for save their ego.

Your projection, your responsibility.

DAWN wrote:It's sad.

No its not sad.

DAWN wrote:Blood is not a sweat, we cant wash it with some soap :toilet:

Yes, you can wash it with soap.
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Hereclitus


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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:43 am

Ben wrote:
DAWN wrote:All that is sad.
Sometimes i think that for many peoples buddhism is just some kind hobbie that they can modify what they want and how they want just for save their ego.

Your projection, your responsibility.

DAWN wrote:It's sad.

No its not sad.

DAWN wrote:Blood is not a sweat, we cant wash it with some soap :toilet:

Yes, you can wash it with soap.


You defend somethink.

Anyway, thanks all corpse-eaters for this constructive discution.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ben » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:49 am

I'm glad you found it constructive.
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:22 pm


Anyway, thanks all corpse-eaters for this constructive discution.


Goodness, a wise old chap we called Bhikkhu Andy remarked to me once that Buddhism is often not so much about what goes in your mouth as what comes out.

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:44 pm

BubbaBuddhist wrote:

Anyway, thanks all corpse-eaters for this constructive discution.


Goodness, a wise old chap we called Bhikkhu Andy remarked to me once that Buddhism is often not so much about what goes in your mouth as what comes out.

BB
:anjali:


I have unwholesome speach?
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Dan74 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:09 pm

DAWN wrote:All that is sad.
Sometimes i think that for many peoples buddhism is just some kind hobbie that they can modify what they want and how they want just for save their ego.

It's sad.

Blood is not a sweat, we cant wash it with some soap :toilet:


I think it is a good idea to cultivate patience and compassion for each other. Compassion for all sentient beings including the animals and those who eat them (human and otherwise).

None of us are perfect here and whether or not vegetarianism is a more noble choice, I don't think it helps anyone to be attacked regarding their choices.

Incidentally our four year old had gone veggie in April (she was still 3) and she is sticking with it and slowly turning the rest of the family too. Here she is proudly wielding a broccoli!

Image[/quote]
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:31 pm

Dan74 wrote:I think it is a good idea to cultivate patience and compassion for each other. Compassion for all sentient beings including the animals and those who eat them (human and otherwise).

None of us are perfect here and whether or not vegetarianism is a more noble choice, I don't think it helps anyone to be attacked regarding their choices.

That hurt my vegan-ego, is that peoples tryes to find justification when there is no any justification possible.
I dont know why, but the food habits tuch the ego in heart... Like the food is somethink very important that supporting ego (vegan-ego or meat-ego), something very personal, very expensive... ultime pleasure :thinking: When craving of mind is such strong, that he eat himself... This world is enflamen by craving...

Actualy, plants are also living beings, so the problem is more deeper... in the very existance. Every living being have to eat, distroy, absorb to survive, cause he think that his existance is much more important that the existance of an another living being.

Sabbe dhamma dukkha
Dan74 wrote:Incidentally our four year old had gone veggie in April (she was still 3) and she is sticking with it and slowly turning the rest of the family too. Here she is proudly wielding a broccoli!

Image
[/quote]

:namaste:
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:19 pm

Dan74 wrote:Incidentally our four year old had gone veggie in April (she was still 3) and she is sticking with it and slowly turning the rest of the family too. Here she is proudly wielding a broccoli!


Excellent! She must be a smart cookie. I say that not because she chose veggie, but simply because she made a conscious choice, any choice at such a young age. My son chose vegan (when the rest of us were lacto-ovo) at a young age and stuck with it even when the rest of were eating yummy pizza around him at the same meal. Later he did switch back to lacto-ovo and then our daughter went hard-core vegan. We never pushed any diet on them, it was their choice and often they took a stricter diet than my wife and I did.
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