Buddhist egoism

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation

Buddhist egoism

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:37 am

There is an buddhist / dhamma egoism? How we can discribe that kind of person?
Can one egoist be a buddhist / practice dhamma?

:juggling:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
User avatar
DAWN
 
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby Ben » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:51 am

Someone who is overly concerned with the behaviour of others.
Someone who doesn't think like you.
Concern yourself with eradicating your own defilements, Dawn.
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Heraclitus


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
 
Posts: 16145
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: Land of the sleeping gods

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:01 pm

Ben wrote:Someone who is overly concerned with the behaviour of others.
Someone who doesn't think like you.
Concern yourself with eradicating your own defilements, Dawn.

I try. :meditate:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
User avatar
DAWN
 
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby Caraka » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:02 pm

I think so, yes. But, is one buddhist that are aware of his/hers egoism and by practice work to towards a better being the same as an ignorant buddhist that is not aware of his/hers egoism?

I also think egoism is direct related to the precept of not taking anything that does not belong to you, and according to Surangama Sutra then risk to fall into the realm of heretics.
User avatar
Caraka
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:01 am

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby Ben » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:03 pm

DAWN wrote:
Ben wrote:Someone who is overly concerned with the behaviour of others.
Someone who doesn't think like you.
Concern yourself with eradicating your own defilements, Dawn.

I try. :meditate:

That is good for you.
I wish you every success!
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Heraclitus


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
 
Posts: 16145
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: Land of the sleeping gods

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:13 pm

Caraka wrote:I think so, yes. But, is one buddhist that are aware of his/hers egoism and by practice work to towards a better being the same as an ignorant buddhist that is not aware of his/hers egoism?

I also think egoism is direct related to the precept of not taking anything that does not belong to you, and according to Surangama Sutra then risk to fall into the realm of heretics.


Dhammapada Verse 63
Ya balo mannati balyam
panditovapi tena so
balo ca panditamani
sa ve baloti vuccati.

Verse 63: The fool who knows that he is a fool can, for that reason, be a wise man; but the fool who thinks that he is wise is, indeed, called a fool.

The Story of Two Pick-Pockets

While residing at the Jetavana monastery, the Buddha uttered Verse (63) of this book, with reference to two pick-pockets.

On one occasion, two pick-pockets joined a group of lay-disciples going to the Jetavana monastery, where the Buddha was giving a discourse. One of them listened attentively to the discourse and soon attained Sotapatti Fruition. However, the second thief did not attend to the discourse as he was bent on stealing only; and he managed to snatch a small sum of money from one of the lay-disciples. After the discourse they went back and cooked their meal at the house of the second thief, the one who managed to get some money. The wife of the second thief taunted the first thief, "You are so wise, you don't even have anything to cook at your house." Hearing this remark, the first thief thought to himself, "This one is so foolish that she thinks she is being very smart." Then, together with some relatives, he went to the Buddha and related the matter to him.

To the man, the Buddha spoke in verse as follows:

Verse 63: The fool who knows that he is a fool can, for that reason, be a wise man; but the fool who thinks that he is wise is, indeed, called a fool.

At the end of the discourse, all the relatives of the man attained Sotapatti Fruition.

http://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/ve ... ?verse=063
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
User avatar
DAWN
 
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby Caraka » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:19 pm

Nhe, I was more thinking of wanting stuff like a house, or better food, and even store food for tomorrow, that kind of egoism.., which again may lead to acquiring whats not given..

In the simplest sense stuff can be acquired by stealing, but there is a lot of ways t acquire anything.
User avatar
Caraka
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:01 am

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby greggorious » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:53 pm

I've come across many 'Proud' Buddhists who can recite sutra's, know loads of terminologies, think they have attained much, but what they've attained is merely an attachment to Buddhism.
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah
greggorious
 
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:34 pm

greggorious wrote:I've come across many 'Proud' Buddhists who can recite sutra's, know loads of terminologies, think they have attained much, but what they've attained is merely an attachment to Buddhism.


I'am one of them.
It's a good exemple of buddhist egoism.

But here we must make some distinctions that is not simple to see:
- if they are atached to The Buddhism or to The Dhamma
- if they recite Dhamma suttas leading by egoistic motivation, or altruistic
- if they do that they preach

Also, a good question is, why this kind of 'proud buddhist' stress me?
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
User avatar
DAWN
 
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:50 pm

why do you think people have big egos?
just because they hold a view different from yours doesn't mean they are egotistic, or proud.
what the question you should be asking regarding others is "Do they put in any practice, and (at least) try to walk their talk; or do they make excuses to not have to practice and live up to their own words?"
but far more importantly "why should anyone comply to what you think?"
like one of my favourite Stephen Fry quotes says
Stephen Fry wrote:"It's now very common to hear people say 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if it gives them certain rights; its actually nothing more... it's simply a whine. its no more than a whine. 'I find it offensive,' it has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that,' well so £*"&ing what!

I have seen many people who talk a good walk but don't try (or twist words to give a false appearance), and feign courtesy, respect, niceness just to feel superior.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5751
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:28 pm

There are all kinds of egoism, from the overt to the more subtle. The good news is that with the practice of the Dhamma, the degrees of egoism can fade. And with progress can come spiritual-materialism-ego. And then even that can fade and disappear, but not until one becomes an arahant. Even an anāgāmī (non-returner) still has some subtle conceit remaining.
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8113
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:02 am

DAWN wrote:Can one egoist be a buddhist / practice dhamma?

Actually, only if one is really an egoist, one is able to start the right practice and in this way help everybody else. One just needs to take care that one is not a fool egoist or a fool alturist.

If you hold yourself dear
then don't fetter yourself with evil,
for happiness isn't easily gained
by one who commits a wrong-doing.

And more about Dear

So just beware that you don't fool around.

Even though they may say, "We aren't dear to ourselves," still they are dear to themselves. Why is that? Of their own accord, they act toward themselves as a dear one would act toward a dear one; thus they are dear to themselves.'"
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
User avatar
Hanzze
 
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:06 am

DAWN wrote:Also, a good question is, why this kind of 'proud buddhist' stress me?

A quote that is good if bared in mind: "If you are stressed by an act/behavior of somebody else, it is something you actually don't like in regard of yourself" Stress is very importand to learn and go back to the place of practice again.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
User avatar
Hanzze
 
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby DAWN » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:20 am

is true.

Actualy, if we watch closely,
ego dont like other ego that distroy him, that brings him unstability,
but ego like other ego that confirm him, that bring him stability
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
User avatar
DAWN
 
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby ground » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:27 am

DAWN wrote:There is an buddhist / dhamma egoism? How we can discribe that kind of person?
Can one egoist be a buddhist / practice dhamma?

:juggling:

Guess you are confusing psychological terms and concepts with buddhist concepts. Buddhism is not concerned with egoism but with self. :sage:
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 2592
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:31 am

Still searching a way to keep some things?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
User avatar
Hanzze
 
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby ground » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:32 am

Who is searching what and who is asking? :sage:
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 2592
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:35 am

One should ask this very often and remember.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
User avatar
Hanzze
 
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby ground » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:36 am

Hanzze wrote:One should ask this very often and remember.

Who asks and who remembers? :sage:
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 2592
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Buddhist egoism

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:42 am

I guess in your case maybe an huge ego hidden in pubbekata-hetu-ditthi-vada, but that does not really matter to you, isn't it? Thanks for your sample anyway. For some it might be useful.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
User avatar
Hanzze
 
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Next

Return to Open Dhamma

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests