noting : intention to move

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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purple planet
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noting : intention to move

Postby purple planet » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:33 pm

I wonder should i add to my walking meditation another "step"

i note now : lifting , moving , lowering

should i add intention to move before each action (lifting , moving , lowering ) ? intention lifting , intention moving , intention lowering - i wonder also if this intention is not me forcing an intention and that the walking is : "automatic"
without an intention before each step

If you think the answer is yes - isnt it to much noting ?
Last edited by purple planet on Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance

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badscooter
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Re: noting : intention to move

Postby badscooter » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:53 pm

Usually when your becoming better with the noting technique, you can add another note to the walking movement such as "placing" when your foot is flat on the ground. So you can note like this: "lifting", "moving", "lowering", "placing".

Hope that helps

May you be well :smile:
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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purple planet
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Re: noting : intention to move

Postby purple planet » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:46 pm

What about intention ?
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance

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mikenz66
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Re: noting : intention to move

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:59 pm

Hi Purple Planet,

Yes, if you look closely you can eventually see the intention in every movement. It is an important part of the process.

http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Mahasi/Vip ... ssana.html
Mahasi Sayadaw wrote:Whenever you change your posture, begin by noting your intention or desire to change, and note every movement closely, such as rising from the sitting posture, raising the arm, moving and stretching it. You should note the movements at the same time as making them. As your body sways forward, note it. As you rise, the body becomes light and rises. Focus your mind on this, you should gently note as ‘rising, rising.’


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pesala/Pan ... ality.html
Sayadaw U Pandita wrote:Meditation need not come to an end after an hour of sitting. It can be carried out continuously through the day. When you get up from sitting, you must note carefully — beginning with the intention to open the eyes. “Intending, intending... Opening, opening.” Experience the mental event of intending, and feel the sensations of opening the eyes. Continue to note carefully and precisely, with full observing power, through the whole transition of postures until the moment you have stood up, and when you begin to walk. Throughout the day you should also be aware of, and mentally note, all other activities, such as stretching, bending your arm, taking a spoon, puffing on clothes, brushing your teeth, closing the door, opening the door, closing your eyelids, eating, and so forth. All of these activities should be noted with careful awareness and a soft mental label.


:anjali:
Mike

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Re: noting : intention to move

Postby badscooter » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:10 pm

purple planet wrote:What about intention ?


Usually the intention is noted in the beginning of the walking... then the noting of the steps when actually walking until stopping.. noting "stoping", then before turning around start with "intending to turn" , then when turning note "turning", then when done turning and you are standing note "standing", then before beginning to walk again note the intention "intending to walk".. this process is repeated over and over until the session is done.

Thats usually how they start incorporating noting "intention" of things. You can only note what you are able to. If you want to try to note the intention of every step, then by all means go for it.
If it feels like too much, then work into it slowly.. Try noting the big changes in your bodily actions throughout the day... but the walking meditation above is a good place to start incorporating noting 'intentions' of actions.

:smile:
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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Re: noting : intention to move

Postby badscooter » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:11 pm

whoops! mike already beat me to an answer :smile:

I think his is better than mine anyway

be well
:anjali:
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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Re: noting : intention to move

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:23 pm

Hi Billy,
Billymac29 wrote:whoops! mike already beat me to an answer :smile:

It's not a competitive sport!
Billymac29 wrote:I think his is better than mine anyway

I would say that they are complimentary. What you describe is very much how I was taught. If perceiving intention is difficult, then, before resuming walking, it can be useful to stand for a while until the intention to walk becomes very obvious.

From a more general perspective, perceiving intention is an important part of starting to understanding causality, and in identifying the various mental-material aspects of actions.

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: noting : intention to move

Postby SayalayMaCandasobha » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:38 pm

Extract from Sayadaw U Pandita’s sayings (12.11.94)
(put into Questions and Answers)

Question:
Before lifting, pushing, and dropping, do I have to note the intention to lift, push and drop?

Answer:
One needs to catch all these intentions. But in the beginning, as the noting mind doesn’t have the ability to catch them, one shouldn’t note them.
Why? In orderly sequence, in the beginning of the practice, one cannot catch the intentions of the mind yet. Even when one can differentiate mind and matter, one cannot actually catch them yet. If one is to try noting an object, which cannot be caught yet, it amounts only to contemplate on emptiness. There is nothing certain and distinct. That’s why, one should systematically note in priority only objects that are obvious.
According to the scriptures and experience, in the beginning, one has to contemplate objects, which are more predominant. While observing objects, which are clear and distinct, mental objects, which are less obvious, may arise as well.

Let us take the simile of the burnished brass mirror, which was used in the ancient time as mirror. If the mirror was dirty with impurities, one needed to polish it so to remove the dust and make it bright. Once polished, the colour of the brass would become brilliant, and the shape of the person would automatically appear.
Thus, for the shape to be clear, what is important is to polish the surface of the mirror, which is stained. As much as one polishes, the shape of the person will be distinct.

What is meant is that, when one can observe effectively the physical object, which is more obvious, when one understands it clearly, the mental object becomes clear as well. One can distinctly see mental phenomena.
If one stands in front of a mirror full of dust, looking at it, one will barely see anything. If one polishes and remove again and again the dust, one’s shape will naturally become distinct.
By observing clearly physical phenomena, which are distinct, mental phenomena, which are less distinct, will become obvious.
(In walking meditation), some yogis before lifting, think that they have to note the intention of lifting before lifting. (And similarly for the pushing and dropping process).
In fact the mind is very quick. It passes in a fleeting manner. And so the noting mind cannot catch this mind so swift. Thus, when trying to note that mind, the noting mind, which occurs after, is just noting on something, which is not there.


With metta

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mikenz66
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Re: noting : intention to move

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:51 pm

Hi SayalayMaCandasobha,

That's an excellent reminder. One needs to be clear that one is actually perceiving objects. I'm sure that when I started practice I spent several months imagining rising/falling/etc, not actually perceiving it...

As U Pandita says, it's not particularly helpful to note an imaginary object. However, with enough practice one can perceive both the action and the intention.

:anjali:
Mike

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badscooter
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Re: noting : intention to move

Postby badscooter » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:32 pm

SayalayMaCandasobha wrote:Extract from Sayadaw U Pandita’s sayings (12.11.94)
(put into Questions and Answers)

Question:
Before lifting, pushing, and dropping, do I have to note the intention to lift, push and drop?

Answer:
One needs to catch all these intentions. But in the beginning, as the noting mind doesn’t have the ability to catch them, one shouldn’t note them.
Why? In orderly sequence, in the beginning of the practice, one cannot catch the intentions of the mind yet. Even when one can differentiate mind and matter, one cannot actually catch them yet. If one is to try noting an object, which cannot be caught yet, it amounts only to contemplate on emptiness. There is nothing certain and distinct. That’s why, one should systematically note in priority only objects that are obvious.
According to the scriptures and experience, in the beginning, one has to contemplate objects, which are more predominant. While observing objects, which are clear and distinct, mental objects, which are less obvious, may arise as well.

Let us take the simile of the burnished brass mirror, which was used in the ancient time as mirror. If the mirror was dirty with impurities, one needed to polish it so to remove the dust and make it bright. Once polished, the colour of the brass would become brilliant, and the shape of the person would automatically appear.
Thus, for the shape to be clear, what is important is to polish the surface of the mirror, which is stained. As much as one polishes, the shape of the person will be distinct.

What is meant is that, when one can observe effectively the physical object, which is more obvious, when one understands it clearly, the mental object becomes clear as well. One can distinctly see mental phenomena.
If one stands in front of a mirror full of dust, looking at it, one will barely see anything. If one polishes and remove again and again the dust, one’s shape will naturally become distinct.
By observing clearly physical phenomena, which are distinct, mental phenomena, which are less distinct, will become obvious.
(In walking meditation), some yogis before lifting, think that they have to note the intention of lifting before lifting. (And similarly for the pushing and dropping process).
In fact the mind is very quick. It passes in a fleeting manner. And so the noting mind cannot catch this mind so swift. Thus, when trying to note that mind, the noting mind, which occurs after, is just noting on something, which is not there.


With metta



:goodpost:

may all be well
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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badscooter
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Re: noting : intention to move

Postby badscooter » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:34 pm

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Billy,
Billymac29 wrote:whoops! mike already beat me to an answer :smile:

It's not a competitive sport!


lol.. yes I know.. It was more a figure of speech..

be well
:anjali:
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"


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