Stream-Winners Subsequent Lives

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AdvaitaJ
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Stream-Winners Subsequent Lives

Postby AdvaitaJ » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:46 am

Just thinking, but one who is a Sotapanna and returning for one of the not-more-than-seven remaining lives must get reconnected with the Triple Gem, right? Do you suppose they know from birth where they stand or do they figure it out somewhere along the way?

:coffee: AdvaitaJ
The birds have vanished down the sky. Now the last cloud drains away.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.
Li Bai

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Rhino
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Re: Stream-Winners Subsequent Lives

Postby Rhino » Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:01 pm

I think they don't know it from birth, but they will attain/recognize quickly sotapanna again and then going forward.
But, of course, I'm not sure. :?

With best wishes
With best wishes

Only in a vertical view, straight down into the abyss of his own personal existence, is a man capable of apprehending the perilous insecurity of his situation; and only a man who does apprehend this is prepared to listen to the Buddha's Teaching.
Nanavira Thera - Notes on Dhamma

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Dhammanando
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Re: Stream-Winners Subsequent Lives

Postby Dhammanando » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:59 pm

AdvaitaJ wrote:Just thinking, but one who is a Sotapanna and returning for one of the not-more-than-seven remaining lives must get reconnected with the Triple Gem, right?


Yes.

Do you suppose they know from birth where they stand or do they figure it out somewhere along the way?


The deceased sotapannas whose narratives are related in Pali texts were all reborn as devas, and as such had perfect recall of their preceding human life. Since we don't have any accounts of sotapannas who are reborn in the human realm one can only speculate as to what they would be like. My guess is that strong natural-decisive-support condition would probably lead to their being reborn in a Buddhist family. If it didn't and they were reborn among holders of wrong view, they would be impervious to any parental attempts to indoctrinate them, since akusala cittas accompanied by wrong view cannot arise in the mental continuum of a sotapanna. But this doesn't mean that the cittas that do arise will all be accompanied by knowledge (ñanasampayutta); so it's quite conceivable that in their early years they would have no sense of being sotapannas until they came to re-encounter the Dhamma.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
    ...and this thought arose in the mind of the Blessed One:
    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
    Uruvela Sutta, A.ii.20

    It were endless to dispute upon everything that is disputable.
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Jechbi
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Re: Stream-Winners Subsequent Lives

Postby Jechbi » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:25 pm

But their sila is perfect, right?
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

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AdvaitaJ
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Re: Stream-Winners Subsequent Lives

Postby AdvaitaJ » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:08 am

Dhammanando wrote: ...they would be impervious to any parental attempts to indoctrinate them...


Venerable,

Thanks for the response. Not to suggest that I'm anything other than a struggling neophyte, but when I was a little boy, my mother took me to a neighborhood Presbyterian church and left me with the other children while she did whatever it is that the adults do there. The only memory I have of the event is walking in the front doors. But at the end of the service, they told her "don't bring him back here." :tongue:

Probably the luckiest moment in my life. :thumbsup:

Kind regards: AdvaitaJ
The birds have vanished down the sky. Now the last cloud drains away.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.
Li Bai

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Jechbi
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Re: Stream-Winners Subsequent Lives

Postby Jechbi » Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:13 am

AdvaitaJ wrote:... when I was a little boy, my mother took me to a neighborhood Presbyterian church and left me with the other children while she did whatever it is that the adults do there. The only memory I have of the event is walking in the front doors. But at the end of the service, they told her "don't bring him back here." :tongue:

Probably the luckiest moment in my life. :thumbsup:

Out of curiosity I googled "presbyterian buddhist" and came across this. Kind of a muddle, but interesting.

Back to the topic ... I would speculate that a sotapanna who takes rebirth as a human would eventually notice unusual things about himself or herself, such as an inability to tell a lie, a strange compulsion not to swat at and kill mosquitoes or other living things, an overwhelming motivation not to try alcohol ever, and perhaps a natural inclination toward meditative absorption. I would speculate that a sotapanna generally would be a very happy, content individual whose kamma has brought him or her to rebirth in a setting conducive to a calm, peaceful existence. But if not, then I imagine those ordinary people who are close to the sotapanna would notice something different about him or her compared with others.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

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Nibbida
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Re: Stream-Winners Subsequent Lives

Postby Nibbida » Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:07 am

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