Thought suppression by Samatha

Discussion of Samatha bhavana and Jhana bhavana.

Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby reflection » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:19 pm

I don't know in which way your thoughts are suppressed, this can make a difference. It's not about suppressing, but more silencing.

If it's just silencing and your mind doesn't want to think because it likes the silence, that's great. A good indicator of whether you are suppresing or whether it's going well is the feeling you get out of meditation. If it feels good, I wouldn't cut back on the practice as some others suggested, but you may need to learn one or two tricks. A trick is to prepare the mind of what it's going to do. When you are going to do meditation, tell the mind you are going to do meditation. When you are going to work, tell your mind it's time to think again. That way you'll learn the difference between when thoughts need to be activated and when they do not. It may take a bit of getting used to, but this is the way to also tell your mind when to contemplate, to pick up a certain subject, when time is right. It's setting up sati on a specific task.

I found it works wonders. When at work, my mind is in thinking mode on a subject I want it to think on. When practicing meditation, it's not. (in general) It's quite useful and peaceful to be able switch your thoughts on and off.

According to MN20 if I recall correctly, such a control of the thought process is a result of meditation. But yeah, it's beneficial to learn how to program the mind, which in itself isn't the easiest thing in the world, but if you didn't know about this yet, I suggest you try it out. To learn how to do this is also useful in meditation as well, and I would also practice it inside of meditation. For example, telling the mind to pick up metta in a talkative or silent way, or to pick up the body/breath/pitisukkha etc. To pick up the body parts silently or with active thinking etc. Play around a bit to see how this works.


Ajahn Brahm teaches this under the name of "setting up the gatekeeper". It's explained here:
http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books/Ajahn_ ... ulness.htm

With metta,
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:37 pm

DAWN wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:
DAWN wrote:Actualy, this state of mind, when he dont captures nothink, when all that heppens lides down like a drop of rain on the lotus leaf, is very... is very free :roll:
When it's like this, the problem is not the mind, but a job that dont let you be released, be free , feel true happyness of calm.

Go forth is the solution. :roll:

what?


Sorry for my english.

I would like to say in this post that this state of mind is very free. And when is free like that, the problem is not the mind that is free, but the job that forces us to put the collar back.
When your mind is stops, and boss, or other peoples want to make it run - is not good. So we should not make it run, but go forth, job, friends, all... Just live the simple life.

:namaste:

that seams far from free, a free mind would not be constrained by what was recollected or the environment.

what you describe sounds something akin to blissing-out to some extent. but not being able to function completely to do tasks is potentially dangerous as there is a huge mental preoccupation which clouds sati functioning properly in other situations i.e. at work or driving a car.

you still need to function outside of formal meditation.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby DAWN » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:16 am

Cittasanto wrote:that seams far from free, a free mind would not be constrained by what was recollected or the environment.


Yes. That i'am talking about.
When you stop but someone still to push you in the back. When you have no collar, but you forced to putt it back.
You dont identify with the things that heppens, but you are forced to identify with it, to react, to modify, to act, to think, to remember, to planify, ...

That i want to tell, is that, is not a practice that must be adoptate on job, but the job that must be adoptate on practice. :meditate:

IMHO
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:19 am

DAWN wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:that seams far from free, a free mind would not be constrained by what was recollected or the environment.


Yes. That i'am talking about.
When you stop but someone still to push you in the back. When you have no collar, but you forced to putt it back.
You dont identify with the things that heppens, but you are forced to identify with it, to react, to modify, to act, to think, to remember, to planify, ...

That i want to tell, is that, is not a practice that must be adoptate on job, but the job that must be adoptate on practice. :meditate:

IMHO

there is more to do than bliss out. like the part of what I said you quote says it is far from free!
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby DAWN » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:30 am

Cittasanto wrote:there is more to do than bliss out. like the part of what I said you quote says it is far from free!

I you want
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:04 am

DAWN wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:there is more to do than bliss out. like the part of what I said you quote says it is far from free!

I you want

what?
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby DAWN » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:09 am

Cittasanto wrote:
DAWN wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:there is more to do than bliss out. like the part of what I said you quote says it is far from free!

I you want

what?


Sorry. I said :

'IF you want'
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:17 am

DAWN wrote:'IF you want'

if you want nibbana you don't settle for Jhana alone
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby DAWN » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:20 am

Cittasanto wrote:
DAWN wrote:'IF you want'

if you want nibbana you don't settle for Jhana alone

I dont want it
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:43 am

DAWN wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:
DAWN wrote:'IF you want'

if you want nibbana you don't settle for Jhana alone

I dont want it

you don't aim for nibbana?
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby DAWN » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:52 am

Cittasanto wrote:you don't aim for nibbana?

No, and you ?
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:01 am

I aim for the end of suffering, however I suspect I know where you are going to try to twist this.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby DAWN » Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:15 am

Cittasanto wrote:I aim for the end of suffering, however I suspect I know where you are going to try to twist this.


If there is aim, there is suffering.
You are reason in your suspection.
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:24 pm

DAWN wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:I aim for the end of suffering, however I suspect I know where you are going to try to twist this.


If there is aim, there is suffering.
You are reason in your suspection.

yeah without convention words have no meaning.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby DAWN » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:34 pm

Cittasanto wrote:
DAWN wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:I aim for the end of suffering, however I suspect I know where you are going to try to twist this.


If there is aim, there is suffering.
You are reason in your suspection.

yeah without convention words have no meaning.


I dont understant
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:22 pm

DAWN wrote:I dont understant

Ajahn Chah listened to one of his disciples recite the Heart Sutra. When he had finished, Ajahn Chah said, "No emptiness either… no bodhisatta." He then asked, "Where did the sutra come from?" "It’s reputed to have been spoken by the Buddha," the follower replied. "No Buddha," retorted Ajahn Chah. Then he said, "This is talking about deep wisdom beyond all conventions. How could we teach without them? We have to have names for things, isn’t that so?"

as this is now meta discussion I will leave this unsurprising redundancy here.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby DAWN » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:39 pm

Cittasanto wrote:
DAWN wrote:I dont understant

Ajahn Chah listened to one of his disciples recite the Heart Sutra. When he had finished, Ajahn Chah said, "No emptiness either… no bodhisatta." He then asked, "Where did the sutra come from?" "It’s reputed to have been spoken by the Buddha," the follower replied. "No Buddha," retorted Ajahn Chah. Then he said, "This is talking about deep wisdom beyond all conventions. How could we teach without them? We have to have names for things, isn’t that so?"

as this is now meta discussion I will leave this unsurprising redundancy here.


Thanks, now i understant. But you can not know if i have or have no meaning of this words, i'am not sure that you have this iddhi, so actualy in this situation, you talk about conventions without knowing, but you talk by conventions (that some one have/no have meaning of some word) without knowing (iddhi).

There is an proverb in old french language :
Tex donne boen consoils autrui, qui ne savroit conselier lui.
Who can give advice to others, if he is not able to give advice to gim self.

I feel some probleme in your reaction. So i would like to say Exuse me if i said something that you are not agree about.

You take a good decision to leave. That i will do too.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
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I'am sorry for my english
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:56 pm

@reflection: thanks for that suggestion. I will play around with this a bit.

@daverupa: it could be that I need to balance my faculties as samadhi has become unwieldy. Alternatively development of samadhi with and without vitakka (but not in jhana) is mentioned in some suttas may have something to do with this experience - though I may be jumping the gun if I think of it like that.

@DAWN : yes I have explored the option of ordaining but it is not an option for me :). I need to be able to think as well as have a more fluid type of samadhi. I will have to reserve the heavy stuff for the retreats.

@cittasanto: thank you for your input.

With metta

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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:00 pm

Hi Matheesha,
Just remember this is a path of mistakes, sometimes we reach dead ends, other times wrong use of things (I tend to go with the latter).
I like your responce to Daverupa, it is certainly a praise worthy and simle version of what has been suggested. But just to note there that is the second Jhana in the commentaries (if you didn't already know). If you can attain Jhana don't stop, just balance :)
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Thought suppression by Samatha

Postby rowyourboat » Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:51 pm

Cittasanto wrote:Hi Matheesha,
Just remember this is a path of mistakes, sometimes we reach dead ends, other times wrong use of things (I tend to go with the latter).
I like your responce to Daverupa, it is certainly a praise worthy and simle version of what has been suggested. But just to note there that is the second Jhana in the commentaries (if you didn't already know). If you can attain Jhana don't stop, just balance :)


Thanks Cittasanto. I am staging a gradual return to my samatha. :)
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