the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
Posts: 9911
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:19 pm

Dan74 wrote:Incidentally our four year old had gone veggie in April (she was still 3) and she is sticking with it and slowly turning the rest of the family too. Here she is proudly wielding a broccoli!


Excellent! She must be a smart cookie. I say that not because she chose veggie, but simply because she made a conscious choice, any choice at such a young age. My son chose vegan (when the rest of us were lacto-ovo) at a young age and stuck with it even when the rest of were eating yummy pizza around him at the same meal. Later he did switch back to lacto-ovo and then our daughter went hard-core vegan. We never pushed any diet on them, it was their choice and often they took a stricter diet than my wife and I did.

User avatar
DAWN
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:24 pm

David N. Snyder wrote: daughter went hard-core vegan.


She keep it very strict?
If there is somethink speacial in they practice? If is not a secret :thinking:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
Posts: 9911
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:32 pm

DAWN wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote: daughter went hard-core vegan.


She keep it very strict?
If there is somethink speacial in they practice? If is not a secret :thinking:


Yes, she is vegan only, all the time. She chose it mostly on ethical grounds, but also is aware of the nutritional case for it too.

User avatar
DAWN
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:37 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
DAWN wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote: daughter went hard-core vegan.


She keep it very strict?
If there is somethink speacial in they practice? If is not a secret :thinking:


Yes, she is vegan only, all the time. She chose it mostly on ethical grounds, but also is aware of the nutritional case for it too.


Thanks!
:twothumbsup: :namaste:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

User avatar
yawares
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: David's Book : Non-violence and Vegetarianism

Postby yawares » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:11 pm

DAWN wrote:Very intresting to read yours topics Yawares.
Thanks you a lot. :namaste:

Yawares :thanks: for reading ....It's David's topic :thumbsup: yawares is just a poster :tongue:

User avatar
BubbaBuddhist
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:55 am
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:01 pm

When ever omni/carnivores want to debate with my bad vegetarian self, I unbutton my shirt to reveal this:
Image

--bring out a carrot stick, growl, and loudly pop off a bite. End of debate.

BB
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:10 pm

Ben wrote:No, its not.

kind regards,

Ben

You've never ripped a line of primo ground beef before?

Here where I live, they call it "Bombay chuck." I've heard it's over 90% pure; none of that 30% fat street stuff.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.

User avatar
DAWN
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:55 pm

BubbaBuddhist wrote:When ever omni/carnivores want to debate with my bad vegetarian self, I unbutton my shirt to reveal this:
Image

--bring out a carrot stick, growl, and loudly pop off a bite. End of debate.

BB


Thanks you a lot !

I will confirm myself in my vegan-ego and make some vegan t-shirt :pig: :namaste:
http://www.spreadshirt.fr/tee-shirt-per ... 185435%3As
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ben » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:06 pm

Hi LY,
LonesomeYogurt wrote:
Ben wrote:No, its not.

kind regards,

Ben

You've never ripped a line of primo ground beef before?

Here where I live, they call it "Bombay chuck." I've heard it's over 90% pure; none of that 30% fat street stuff.


I work a lot with food. I'm very careful regarding the quality of ingredients I buy whether it be for home or work.
If I am buying mince (ground beef) I ensure that it is premium quality. Anything less than premium quality I feed to my dogs.

With regards to spilling the contents and cleaning up - if the blood gets into fabrics such as clothes or tea towels, the stain will only set if it is washed in hot water. Soak in cold water with generic laundry powder.

I am much more careful when it comes to the liquid that comes out of chicken meat. It can contain nasties that can make you sick.

Always use special purpose cutting boards for different types of cooked and raw food to avoid cross-contamination and always ensure personal hygiene before and after food prep.
BTW, I have heard the term "Bombay Duck" but didn't know it referred to ground beef (beef mince)!
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

User avatar
maverick
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:40 am
Location: Reisterstown, MD, USA

Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Postby maverick » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:38 am

Just curious.
Are there any stories in the text that describe what was his usual diet like ?
Last edited by maverick on Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, enough to be RELEASED.

The path is not about becoming a better person — it is about putting an end to becoming

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8491
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Postby cooran » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:46 am

Hello maverick,

No, the Buddha was not vegetarian. He was an alms-mendicant - this means he ate only what people gave him, and did not store food for another day.

''As recorded in the Pali scriptures, the Buddha did not prohibit consumption of meat, even by monks. In fact, he explicitly rejected a suggestion from Devadatta to do so. In modern Theravada societies, a bhikkhu who adheres to vegetarianism to impress others with his superior spirituality may be committing an infringement of the monastic rules.

On the other hand, the Buddha categorically prohibited consumption of the flesh of any animal that was "seen, heard or suspected" to have been killed specifically for the benefit of monks (Jivaka Sutta, Majjhima Nikaya 55). This rule technically applies only to monastics, but it can be used as a reasonable guide by devout lay people.''
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/vegi.html

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6395
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:08 am

maverick wrote:Just curious.
Are there any stories in the text that describe what was his average diet like ?

there are no specific tellings of diet, but there are references, this page may help answer your questions somewhat
http://dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=V ... d_Buddhism
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: David's Book : Non-violence and Vegetarianism

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:12 am

Maybe it is usefull to make also some connections to non-greed and non-delusion in regard of Vegetarianism. Of course it needs a lot more effort and time to transport and to get the message for a real non-violence solution.
People love non-violence but do not like non-greed and they love -ism but aren't much interested in non-delusion.

Maybe something that needs some good extra work for the modern approach of Theravada in the "modern" world.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:32 am

Maybe useful, to understand the eightfold Path and Diet (even not the best english): Buddha Dharma and Food - consider food as path to liberation
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
Posts: 9911
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:19 pm

maverick wrote:Just curious.
Are there any stories in the text that describe what was his average diet like ?


Yes, there are indications. I was curious too, so took the time to go through the Tipitaka and record every instance where it discusses what he ate. He was not vegetarian, but pretty close; about 97% vegetarian and not too much vegan. See:

Diet of Buddha

User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
Posts: 9911
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:07 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:Diet of Buddha


97% vegetarian and about 72% vegan (I just counted the vegan references).

And based on the above, I think it is a win-win for both sides in the veg. debates. The vegetarians can say that the Buddha was 97% or almost completely vegetarian. And the omnivores can say that the fact that he ate some meat, any meat, shows that he did not ban it, nor is there the direct intention in regard to killing.

perkele
Posts: 547
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:37 pm

Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Postby perkele » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:16 am

David N. Snyder wrote: The vegetarians can say that the Buddha was 97% or almost completely vegetarian.

which is maybe not quite such a meaningful statement in face of the fact that he did not choose his own food buth just accepted almsfood given to him.
But I think it goes to show that his supporters and almsgivers took the precept of abstaining from killing seriously.

User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:37 am

You can infer from the texts that the Buddha was passively vegetarian, but did consume meat when it was offered.

Like David said, he clearly had a primarily meat-free diet.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6395
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:20 am

perkele wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote: The vegetarians can say that the Buddha was 97% or almost completely vegetarian.

which is maybe not quite such a meaningful statement in face of the fact that he did not choose his own food buth just accepted almsfood given to him.
But I think it goes to show that his supporters and almsgivers took the precept of abstaining from killing seriously.

the only way that could be known about the supporters is if they never gave him meat
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Was Buddha a vegetarian ?

Postby Hanzze » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:38 am

There is much danger in drawing a direct connection between the wordly trend of Vegetarism and that what is taught and practiced by the Buddha and his noble disiples. So everybody should give this point very much attention and wisly reflecting.

Dhammantaraya
By miccha-dhamma that are likely to cause dhammantaraya is meant such views, practices and limitations as the inability to see the dangers of samsara, the belief that these are times when the Paths and the Fruits can no longer be attained, the tendency to defer effort until the parami ripen, the belief that persons of the present day are dvi-hetuka,[38] the belief that the great teachers of the past were nonexistent, etc.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_


Return to “Connections to Other Paths”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine