Experience of Mahasi method but focusing on nostrils?

[nomorecurries]

Hi

I may be going to Wat Ram Poeng in Thailand that uses the Mahasi technique or something similar (focuses on abdomen and then uses "sitting" and "touching" (a number of spots on the body) between the in out breath and the in breath).

I really want to go to Wat Ram Poeng, set up looks good and looks quite intense. However, I am much much happier focusing the breathing on the nostrils (is natural for me and is a tool to stay present in day to day life). I have seen in a couple of places on the internet that the original Mahasi meditation centres do allow people to focus on the breath at the nostrils if they so desire / insist.

Does anyone have any experience of Mahasi and focusing on the nostrils and if so how do you do the "sitting" "touching" as there is no time / much less time between out breath and in breath when focusing at the nostrils (rather than the abdomen)?

Any thoughts much appreciated

Cheers

Robin

[LonesomeYogurt]

I've never come in contact with a Mahasi teacher who forbid it - but your best option is to email them or ask directly. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

EDIT: Totally misunderstood that question. I would recommend trying to do the abdomen noting while you're there, simply because I really do think that it is more conducive to a mindfulness approach. If you're trying to do Mahasi Vipasanna then noting at the nose can sometimes derail into pure samatha.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

If you want to go there and practise the Mahasi method, try to follow the instructions given to focus on the abdominal movements. If your mind wanders to the nostrils, as it will due to force of habit, just acknowledge the touch of the breath, then resume noting the abdominal movements.

Follow the basic instruction — “Be mindful of each and every mental and physical phenomenon that arises throughout the entire day, without missing anything.”

Have you done full time intensive practice before?

[mikenz66]

I think Bhikkhu Pesala makes a good point. Try it, and see how it works. If I go on a retreat with a teacher who teaches differently from what is "normal" for me I try to follow the instructions. And I usually learn something. My main teachers have been Mahasi-style, but I found going on a Goenka retreat a few years ago very helpful.


Mike

[nomorecurries]

If you want to go there and practise the Mahasi method, try to follow the instructions given to focus on the abdominal movements. If your mind wanders to the nostrils, as it will due to force of habit, just acknowledge the touch of the breath, then resume noting the abdominal movements.

Follow the basic instruction — “Be mindful of each and every mental and physical phenomenon that arises throughout the entire day, without missing anything.”

Have you done full time intensive practice before?

Thanks a lot (all). I have done 3 Goenka courses and one 10 day Mahasi style (but that was 10 years ago and I remember the abdomen approach being difficult then). What I really like about the nostril approach is you can use it in day to day life walking around which helps keep you present (it is much more difficult to feel abdomen when moving around)

[LonesomeYogurt]

Thanks a lot (all). I have done 3 Goenka courses and one 10 day Mahasi style (but that was 10 years ago and I remember the abdomen approach being difficult then). What I really like about the nostril approach is you can use it in day to day life walking around which helps keep you present (it is much more difficult to feel abdomen when moving around)

I think that's part of the problem though - Mahasi isn't really that focused on the breath during walking meditation or day to day life. When walking, you should note "walking, walking" or even "rising, moving, stepping." Perhaps getting a secondary meditation object (the abdomen) could help broaden your mindfulness horizons, so to speak.

As someone who mainly does breath meditation at the nose as well, I can definitely sympathize with what you're saying, but I really do think the Mahasi mindfulness all the time approach works better with abdomen watching.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

What I really like about the nostril approach is you can use it in day to day life walking around which helps keep you present (it is much more difficult to feel abdomen when moving around)

You're not supposed to be aware of the abdominal movements when moving around. You're supposed to be aware of the movements of the limbs when moving around, specifically the movements of the feet. Contemplation of the abdominal movements and the movements of the limbs is paying attention to the element of motion (vāyo dhātu), which is the section in the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta called attention to the lements (dhātumānasikāra). It is not mindfulness of breathing.

Noting the abdominal movements is just one of many objects of awareness. It is called the primary object, but that applies only to sitting meditation. If other objects intrude, such as wandering thoughts, pain, sounds, etc., they become the object of contemplation at that moment. After noting the secondary objects until they disappear, one can resume noting the abdominal movements. After some days of practice, noting will become semi-automatic through repeated and diligent practice.

The mental noting is nothing but initial application (vitakka), which pushes the mind towards the current object to be contemplated. In the Satipaṭṭhāna method, the meditation object is constantly changing throughout the day. All four foundation of mindfulness must be embraced: the body or physical phenomena, the feelings (both physical and mental feelings), consciousness (seeing, hearing, etc.), and mental states (sensual desire, ill-will, sloth, restelessness, doubt, joy, energy, concentration, etc.)

If you have time, read at least some of "In this Very Life," (the link in my signature) before you go (it may be too much to try to take it all in within a short period). Read at least Practical Insight Meditation.

[nomorecurries]

Just to say many thanks all for your kind replies to my questions. Much appreciated

Robin

[bodom]

Check out the writings of Ven. U Silananda, specifically his book The Four Foundations of Mindfulness. He is a student of Mahasi Sayadaw who teaches Mahasi method but with attention placed on the nostrils during meditation.

[Hanzze]

I found focusing on which nostril is actually in use very useful, as they change every some hours. Needs a lot of effort to see the arising and fading away. Most are even not aware of this permanent change.

So which nostril are you using (is in use) right now?