Consciousness arise from anicca.

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Consciousness arise from anicca.

Postby DAWN » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:36 am

I see that consciousness arise from anicca.
Is there is any sutta or other text or opinion that confirm or afirm that statement ?
:meditate:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
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I'am sorry for my english
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Re: Consciousness arise from anicca.

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:44 am

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nymo.html
Viññāṇaṃ bhikkhave, anattā, ...
"Bhikkhus, consciousness is not self. Were consciousness self, then this consciousness would not lead to affliction, and one could have it of consciousness: 'Let my consciousness be thus, let my consciousness be not thus.' And since consciousness is not-self, so it leads to affliction, and none can have it of consciousness: 'Let my consciousness be thus, let my consciousness be not thus.'


:anjali:
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Re: Consciousness arise from anicca.

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:54 am

Here are some sutta references to the origin of consciousness:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Dependent on the eye & forms there arises eye-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
'Consciousness exists when name-&-form exists. From name-&-form as a requisite condition comes consciousness.'


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nypo.html
"And this consciousness, O monks, what is its source...? Consciousness has kamma-formations as its source and origin...


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"He discerns consciousness, the origination of consciousness, the cessation of consciousness, the path of practice leading to the cessation of consciousness. He discerns the allure of consciousness, the drawback of consciousness, and the escape from consciousness.


See also: http://what-buddha-said.net/library/Bud ... B1%C4%81na

:anjali:
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Re: Consciousness arise from anicca.

Postby DAWN » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:58 am

mikenz66 wrote:http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.059.nymo.html
Viññāṇaṃ bhikkhave, anattā, ...
"Bhikkhus, consciousness is not self. Were consciousness self, then this consciousness would not lead to affliction, and one could have it of consciousness: 'Let my consciousness be thus, let my consciousness be not thus.' And since consciousness is not-self, so it leads to affliction, and none can have it of consciousness: 'Let my consciousness be thus, let my consciousness be not thus.'


:anjali:
Mike


Anicca > Dukkha > Anatta
Thanks you :anjali:

And actualy, is much more simple, consciousness depends on dhammas, so automaticly it arise from Anicca Dukkha and Anatta proprieties of dhammas.
All that arise arise from Anicca Dukkha and Anatta.

I think that dhutanga pracice use this aspect of consiousness and anicca, when you feel that you can die at any moment, you feel anicca by your whool being, by dwelling in the forest, your consciousness is on his maximum, the light on his maximum, insight on his maximum, concentration on his maximum, your practice os on maximum.

Thanks you :anjali:

PS i go in forest :spy:
Last edited by DAWN on Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Consciousness arise from anicca.

Postby Hanzze » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:02 am

How do you come to this conclution? "so automaticly it arise from Anicca Dukkha and Anatta proprieties of dhammas. "

Is and/or conditioned are somehow different.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Consciousness arise from anicca.

Postby DAWN » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:23 am

Hanzze wrote:How do you come to this conclution? "so automaticly it arise from Anicca Dukkha and Anatta proprieties of dhammas. "

Is and/or conditioned are somehow different.


Actualy i wake up at 3am, in the middle of the night, and i perefere this moment of the 'day' cause is very quiet, is vary pure atmosphere, very silients, very peacefull, but also your consciousness is very clear powerfull mind is calm etc etc.
And i couldnt understand why my consciousness is more clear more powerfull at this period of time. So this morning, at the moment of waking up, this thought arise in me. And i understood why the consciousness is powerfull at 3am, cause its smels anicca, our animal nature automaticly pass on mode 'awearness' cause it's dark, no visibility, no control, potential danger, you must survive... Anicca > Consciousness

Also some exemples of life that show it to us.

When there is routine of our life, consciousness is weak, you see some kind of fog. But when some evenement arise who is not a part of this routine, it's like a FLASH !! :shock:
Also, i dont know how it is in the world, but in france, majority of road accident occur near the home, when your vigilence, your consciousness is weak, when the routine is here the driver is surprisend and not ready to some evenement that not enter is his routine, so an accident accur.
Also, more scientificly, if we take a vawe that arise from 0 comes to +1 and after goes to -1, so this wave mouvement is anicca, +1/-1 is dhammas, 0 is true nature of dhammas, and between 0 and +1 there is consciousness. So if there is no anicca, there is no consciousness.


When the one go to dhutanga, the one have to make it anicca :shock:
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Re: Consciousness arise from anicca.

Postby DAWN » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:39 pm

:candle:
Inwardly anicca brings light in our mind
Outwardly anicca brings light in our house

Why?

Because nuclear power stations, and all power stations, use anicca to produce electricity, wich nature is light.
Also, to attract our attention, our consciousness, car constructors use anicca in turn signal etc. :juggling:
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Re: Consciousness arise from anicca.

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:52 am

Oh yes, we don't like stability on our search for it. We fear nicca. Crazy isn't it.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Consciousness arise from anicca.

Postby ground » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:57 am

DAWN wrote:I see that consciousness arise from anicca.

I'd say "anicca" is a consciousness and it arises from sankharas in the sphere of ignorance.

From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. ... Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
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Re: Consciousness arise from anicca.

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:05 am

Another consciousness aroses and it seems to be if it would came out of anicca. :smile: Ignorant, sorry.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Consciousness arise from anicca.

Postby ground » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:23 am

Hanzze wrote:Another consciousness aroses and it seems to be if it would came out of anicca. :smile: Ignorant, sorry.

No, "anicca" is a consciousnesness but it does not arise from anicca but from formations (sankharas) in the sphere of ignorance. But if an awareness of the "Bahyia type" is present while applying words and terminology however one cannot say that the words and terminology which are manifestations of consciousness in a conventional wordly sense arise in the sphere of ignorance. Why? Because the awareness of dependent origination is present and integrated with the application of words and terminology. :sage:
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Re: Consciousness arise from anicca.

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:26 am

Sure, we have a lot of exuses.

If dependent origin would be present, there would be no arising of keybord value.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Consciousness arise from anicca.

Postby ground » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:34 am

Hanzze wrote:Sure, we have a lot of exuses.

If there is identification with and appropriation of aggregates the volition to excuse one-self may arise. :sage:

Hanzze wrote:If dependent origin would be present, there would be no arising of keybord value.

In the sphere of dependent origination there arises whatever arises. Only in the sphere of dependent cessation arising ceases. But this sphere necessarily is the sphere where formerly identification with and appropriation of aggregates took place. So what ceases refers to that experiential sphere and not to what may be seen, heard, smelled etc. in spheres where identification with and appropriation of aggregates still takes place :sage:
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Re: Consciousness arise from anicca.

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:39 am

I guess (which is maybe a arising of consciousness of course mixed with convetional language "guess" to do not cause a maybe inappropriate appearance of knowing) that you still have a problem with the difference identification of what could be reminders and what is for sure supported by causing additional karma, and therefor in the sphear of even incedible ignorance.

Just give it a honest prove. That is the factor of believe and that there will be something like knowing. Unconstracted knowing. Give the arising of the keybord value much attention and you need to use face value to do so.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Consciousness arise from anicca.

Postby ground » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:25 am

Hanzze wrote:I guess (which is maybe a arising of consciousness of course mixed with convetional language "guess" to do not cause a maybe inappropriate appearance of knowing) that you still have a problem with the difference identification of what could be reminders and what is for sure supported by causing additional karma, and therefor in the sphear of even incedible ignorance.

No "I" no problem.

Hanzze wrote:Just give it a honest prove.

Who needs proof? No lack, no need. :sage:
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Re: Consciousness arise from anicca.

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:37 am

Then it could be also the mystic of consciousness arising from nibbana. Wish you to meet friend Dukkha again, before it might be to late. Otherwise thanks that you share what ever reminds out of compassion with us. :bow:
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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