Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Training of Sila, the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).

Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby HWP » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:04 am

Hi all

I have frequently encountered rude sales people, who were loud and reluctant to serve (for less than 10 mins). How do you cope? If I reacted by writing a complaint letter, can I say that its their Kamma - they were rude in the first place.

However, I had encountered these people so often (unprovoked) that I wondered if this is some Kammic occurrence.
There was once an old lady in a temple who pointed at a rubbish bin when I asked where I could put the leftover sweets I bought for the temple. Or a woman who smiled at others in the temple but frowned when looked at me; I didn't even know her. There was another case where a woman who promised to give me her name card but ended up giving someone next to me. She just glared at me condescendingly and turned away. There was once during an interview, I politely informed the interviewer about my transferable skills and she just gave a condescending look and asked "what have your peers achieved, what about you?" There were also people who snorted when I smiled at them. So far, only my beloved mother and some of my close friends (since youth or college years) are nice to me.

Is there some type of Kamma that will make people detest you just by looking? This is tiring...Grateful if anyone can provide some advice here.
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby DAWN » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:16 am

Kamma is action, interaction
Ego i memory obout this interaction

So when some interaction have a bad fruit, and nobody want to suffer, so nodoby will repaet it, will protect himself from interactions with it.
So when some one have a bad experiance with some kind of peoples, or with somebody who have a same type of face, clothing or other external signt, so automaticly, you the one will apriciate or not this face.

Like animals.
They will protect them selves from such and such experiance, cause it brings suffer or death.

It's the same mechanism. There is no any kind of magic, just causes and consequances.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:22 am

Hi HWP,

If I reacted by writing a complaint letter, can I say that its their Kamma - they were rude in the first place.


Image

I guess that answers your question.

There is a real good story which might be very helpful: The Healing of the Bull

Take your time and read it carfully.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby palchi » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:40 am

Much of it might be down to perception and expectations. If you expect people to be unpleasant you are more likely to interpret their response that way. If you expect a certain response and you get a different one, you may take things as personal, directed against you rather than just a neutral response. If you are happy, you may interpret the same interaction differently than if you are sad, angry, upset or in a neutral state of mind.

For example, the interview example you are giving.... I have been on both sides of the interview table. The way interviews are conducted at my workplace is called 'competency based interview' - if asked about my achievements, I might for instance respond that we did a, b, c, with this and that result. The question what have you, personally, done, what was down to others would then invariably come. It's not condescending but trying to figure out what your role was in that achievement.

This is not to dismiss or criticise your experience. Just a pointer to a possible different view. We all get conditioned during our lives in how we relate to situations or other people. And in a sense that is karma. Personally, however, I see karma not as fate but as starting point to take control of my life. What has happened is gone, nothing to be done about. What I do today, in this moment, however, is entirely my responsibility. I can change anything in my life. It may take time. It may be difficult. But it can be done. And so my future changes too. And that, too, is karma.

Good luck
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby HWP » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:09 pm

Hanzze wrote:Hi HWP,

If I reacted by writing a complaint letter, can I say that its their Kamma - they were rude in the first place.


Image

I guess that answers your question.

There is a real good story which might be very helpful: The Healing of the Bull

Take your time and read it carfully.


Hi Hanzze

Thanks for the story.

Actually, if my complaints were illogical, the companies would have had given me short shrift. Besides, I have written letters of compliment when I received good service.

One thing I can agree about the bull story is that the bull should give up on the owner. It should live for itself and try to venture out into the unknown.
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby HWP » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:10 pm

DAWN wrote:Kamma is action, interaction
Ego i memory obout this interaction

So when some interaction have a bad fruit, and nobody want to suffer, so nodoby will repaet it, will protect himself from interactions with it.
So when some one have a bad experiance with some kind of peoples, or with somebody who have a same type of face, clothing or other external signt, so automaticly, you the one will apriciate or not this face.

Like animals.
They will protect them selves from such and such experiance, cause it brings suffer or death.

It's the same mechanism. There is no any kind of magic, just causes and consequances.


I see...this is a possible reason.

Thanks, Dawn!
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby HWP » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:14 pm

palchi wrote:Much of it might be down to perception and expectations. If you expect people to be unpleasant you are more likely to interpret their response that way. If you expect a certain response and you get a different one, you may take things as personal, directed against you rather than just a neutral response. If you are happy, you may interpret the same interaction differently than if you are sad, angry, upset or in a neutral state of mind.

For example, the interview example you are giving.... I have been on both sides of the interview table. The way interviews are conducted at my workplace is called 'competency based interview' - if asked about my achievements, I might for instance respond that we did a, b, c, with this and that result. The question what have you, personally, done, what was down to others would then invariably come. It's not condescending but trying to figure out what your role was in that achievement.

This is not to dismiss or criticise your experience. Just a pointer to a possible different view. We all get conditioned during our lives in how we relate to situations or other people. And in a sense that is karma. Personally, however, I see karma not as fate but as starting point to take control of my life. What has happened is gone, nothing to be done about. What I do today, in this moment, however, is entirely my responsibility. I can change anything in my life. It may take time. It may be difficult. But it can be done. And so my future changes too. And that, too, is karma.

Good luck
palchi


Thanks for your advice, palchi.

Actually, for the interviewer, that was the first time I had that kind of question. In addition, the interviewer just haughtily looked away when I smiled at her after the interview. You can say that was the time I perceived her question to be condescending.
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby Caraka » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:17 pm

Is there some type of Kamma that will make people detest you just by looking?


Do you consider yourself disgusting?
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:23 pm

HWP wrote:Actually, if my complaints were illogical, the companies would have had given me short shrift. Besides, I have written letters of compliment when I received good service.

There is nothing wrong, espeial when you also writte letters of gratefulness in regard of good service. How ever, people do not like to be criticised. So if you walk this way (nothing to blame) you need to know that you will be blamed as well. So constantly prepare your self well and you can be a good support for others, if that is your motivation. You will get used to the hits or let such things just be as they are.
A good wish, if something went wrong (even it was really wrong) is mostly better as another new battle to fight. Sometimes the sentence: "If he would know it, he would not do it." is a good valve. But be careful that it does not come from above looking down. It should be seen more on an equal level: "I am also not perfect yet."

Regarding the story, I guess you did not give you much time for it.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby HWP » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:24 pm

Caraka wrote:
Is there some type of Kamma that will make people detest you just by looking?


Do you consider yourself disgusting?


No, but I am not pretty.
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby HWP » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:31 pm

Hanzze wrote:
HWP wrote:Actually, if my complaints were illogical, the companies would have had given me short shrift. Besides, I have written letters of compliment when I received good service.

There is nothing wrong, espeial when you also writte letters of gratefulness in regard of good service. How ever, people do not like to be criticised. So if you walk this way (nothing to blame) you need to know that you will be blamed as well. So constantly prepare your self well and you can be a good support for others, if that is your motivation. You will get used to the hits or let such things just be as they are.
A good wish, if something went wrong (even it was really wrong) is mostly better as another new battle to fight. Sometimes the sentence: "If he would know it, he would not do it." is a good valve. But be careful that it does not come from above looking down. It should be seen more on an equal level: "I am also not perfect yet."

Regarding the story, I guess you did not give you much time for it.


Thanks for your advice, Hanzze.
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby Sam Vara » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:42 pm

Hi, HWP.

When people give me a hard time I like to reflect on this sutta:

"Monks, some might speak to you using speech that is timely or untimely; monks, some might speak to you according to truth or falsely; monks, some might speak to you gently or harshly; monks, some might speak to you with a good motive or with a harmful motive; monks, some might speak to you with a loving heart or with hostility. On all occasions, monks, you should train yourselves thus: 'Neither shall our minds be affected by this, nor for this matter shall we give vent to evil words, but we shall remain full of concern and pity, with a mind of love, and we shall not give in to hatred. On the contrary, we shall live projecting thoughts of universal love to that very person, making him as well as the whole world the object of our thoughts of universal love — thoughts that have grown great, exalted and measureless. We shall dwell radiating these thoughts which are void of hostility and ill will.' It is in this way, monks, that you should train yourselves.


(It is from "the parable of the saw" http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.021x.budd.html

Without such reflections or similar positive action, I find that my mind gets into a sort of loop where it revisits similar occasions in the past, and I can quickly build up a picture of myself as unloveable, or hopeless, or incompetent, etc. Working at a positive response is useful, because it gives me the mental habits to shrug off other people's rudeness, and might even lead to me having a more positive "vibe" which defuses people's bad attitude. So I make a special effort to generate thoughts of kindness towards people before we meet. "May they be well, may they be free from suffering, may we both have a pleasant encounter...May they take the opportunity to generate some good Kamma by being friendly towards me..." etc.

Don't be tough on yourself, do what makes you happy, and I hope that things get better.
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby HWP » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:04 pm

Sam Vara wrote:Hi, HWP.

When people give me a hard time I like to reflect on this sutta:

"Monks, some might speak to you using speech that is timely or untimely; monks, some might speak to you according to truth or falsely; monks, some might speak to you gently or harshly; monks, some might speak to you with a good motive or with a harmful motive; monks, some might speak to you with a loving heart or with hostility. On all occasions, monks, you should train yourselves thus: 'Neither shall our minds be affected by this, nor for this matter shall we give vent to evil words, but we shall remain full of concern and pity, with a mind of love, and we shall not give in to hatred. On the contrary, we shall live projecting thoughts of universal love to that very person, making him as well as the whole world the object of our thoughts of universal love — thoughts that have grown great, exalted and measureless. We shall dwell radiating these thoughts which are void of hostility and ill will.' It is in this way, monks, that you should train yourselves.


(It is from "the parable of the saw" http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.021x.budd.html

Without such reflections or similar positive action, I find that my mind gets into a sort of loop where it revisits similar occasions in the past, and I can quickly build up a picture of myself as unloveable, or hopeless, or incompetent, etc. Working at a positive response is useful, because it gives me the mental habits to shrug off other people's rudeness, and might even lead to me having a more positive "vibe" which defuses people's bad attitude. So I make a special effort to generate thoughts of kindness towards people before we meet. "May they be well, may they be free from suffering, may we both have a pleasant encounter...May they take the opportunity to generate some good Kamma by being friendly towards me..." etc.

Don't be tough on yourself, do what makes you happy, and I hope that things get better.


Thanks, Sam Vara!
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby santa100 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:47 pm

Why do sales people show their respect when seeing a police officer or the company CEO walking into their store? It could be the authority power, the dress code, and the confidence. I don't see any police officer or company CEO lacking these 3 aspects. That's why they have the respect from everyone. Since you're not a cop nor a CEO, you won't have the 1st factor. But if you have the other 2, you'll still be able to get 2/3 the amount of respect a cop or a CEO get, and that's plenty. So for next time, pay more attention to your dress code and show more confidence and you will see a different response from those people. And if that still doesn't work, simply ask that sales person to provide his/her name and the name of his/her supervisor, you'll definitely see a change in response. Good luck..
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby Caraka » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:58 pm

Do you consider yourself disgusting?


No, but I am not pretty.


Why?
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby befriend » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:56 pm

maybe because you dont love parts of yourself, others will see that in you and not like that. maybe start loving yourself more, and you will attract more positive feedback.
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby Annapurna » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:12 pm

HWP wrote:Hi all

I have frequently encountered rude sales people, who were loud and reluctant to serve (for less than 10 mins). How do you cope? If I reacted by writing a complaint letter, can I say that its their Kamma - they were rude in the first place.

However, I had encountered these people so often (unprovoked) that I wondered if this is some Kammic occurrence.
There was once an old lady in a temple who pointed at a rubbish bin when I asked where I could put the leftover sweets I bought for the temple. Or a woman who smiled at others in the temple but frowned when looked at me; I didn't even know her. There was another case where a woman who promised to give me her name card but ended up giving someone next to me. She just glared at me condescendingly and turned away. There was once during an interview, I politely informed the interviewer about my transferable skills and she just gave a condescending look and asked "what have your peers achieved, what about you?" There were also people who snorted when I smiled at them. So far, only my beloved mother and some of my close friends (since youth or college years) are nice to me.

Is there some type of Kamma that will make people detest you just by looking? This is tiring...Grateful if anyone can provide some advice here.


I skipped all replies, dear, but I understand you so well.

I read something interesting about subconbscious bias lately.

Like, many people react with fear to Arabs and even an Arab name can cause people not to get a job when applying.

Or people react with jealousy to someone they realize looks more beautiful, etc, than they do.

They smell a rival and start an attack.

It's so often true.

We have a saying that goes like:

"Lots of enemies are a great honor."

Because, think about it, --who would consider a poor individual a threat and battle it?

Look at all the movie stars! They get so condemned by the press all their flaws exposed, why? Because they have everything the writer would like to be and have...

Can you think of anything that makes you different?
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby Annapurna » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:30 pm

Are you a girl, when you use the word "pretty"?

Or a guy?
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby HWP » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:19 pm

Thank you all for your advice, I really appreciate it.
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Re: Rude People, Frequent Unpleasant Encounters - Kamma?

Postby DAWN » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:35 pm

Peoples with bounded eyes are running
Leaded by fear and seeking of happyness
They collide with anyone who is on their road
They dont want to harm anyone
They want just to join happyness and stop running
The wise one, without bounded eyes
Can see running peoples
The wise one have compassion of them
So the wise one dont collide with them
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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