Why consciousness is impermanent?

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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby DAWN » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:21 am

Hanzze wrote:Every "Thing"? Really?


Hmmm :tongue:
Actuly all that arise is impermanent, all that constructed is imparmanent, so only tat is not arise, that is not construced is permanent.

But we see on this quastion on other side.
There is no one separate dhamma that is permanent
But all dhammas in their globality are permanent

One dhamma is impermanent
All dhammas is permanents

So actualy you are reason cause:
Every thing is impermanent
Everithnig is permanent

:clap: :namaste:
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby Hanzze » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:34 am

Wellcome to the wheel of no end... maybe you will see an exit (if you wish of cause).
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby DAWN » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:58 am

Hanzze wrote:Wellcome to the wheel of no end... maybe you will see an exit (if you wish of cause).

Indeed !


Dhamma of my personality, my ego will die with the body
Nature of this dhamma will remain with no begining and no end
To stop the kamma of the body, speach and tought i have to pultiply it by 0 each moment :shock:

:meditate:
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby Hanzze » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:04 am

Dhamma of my personality, my ego will die with the body

To doubt this is very importand to find the exit.
Last edited by Hanzze on Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby DAWN » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:10 am

Hanzze wrote:
Dhamma of my personality, my ego will die with the body

To doubt this is very importand to find the exit.


It's true.

When you find exist in your own mind, you find the 0, so you know by what you have tu multiply all fenomenas
Until you have no find the zero, you still with the 1 of "self", so you multiply all fenomena by 1, and kamma continue.
When there is intention, you multiply : 1 x intention x dhamma = 99..999

:?
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby Hanzze » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:11 am

Maybe you invest some time to investigate all the kinds of wrong views in the The All-embracing Net of Views a little.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby DAWN » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:30 am

Hanzze wrote:Maybe you invest some time to investigate all the kinds of wrong views in the The All-embracing Net of Views a little.


Thanks you, i will read it oday.

But which of similes (cause it's just a similes to explain) seems to you as wrong ? I will try to explain differently
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby equilibrium » Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:05 am

Hanzze wrote:
equilibrium wrote:
whynotme wrote:Consciousness is impermanent because there is something called death

So if there is death.....and based on the teachings of the different planes of existence, your next life will be the results of this very life.....so how does death relate to this?

If there is death there should be no future life?...

"When the aggregates arise, decay and die, O bhikkhus, every moment you are born, decay and die"

So are you still dying or do you live already?

For those who know, it will be neither dying or alive!

Anyway, the point being made is this. When we say consciousness is impermanent, is this not the same as one saying life is impermanent?

Consciousness applies to every one of us, we all "know" it.....it is part of a human being.
When we say life is impermanent, we all "know" this too as we were born and we will live and die one day.

As consciousness is part of our life, our being, they are both impermanent.....even knowing this, right now, and based on the teaching of future lives, knowing that consciousness and life are both impermanent.....

The simple question is this:
Knowing they are both impermanent does not allow one to escape samsara does it?
Does Knowing they are both impermanent mean we will not be reborn again in other planes of existence?
Do we see the limitations of the OP?

More importantly, do we see a way out?
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby Hanzze » Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:17 am

Consciousness applies to every one of us, we all "know" it.....it is part of a human being.

I refuse this statement totaly. Consciousness is at least a concept and even on a level of awarness, there are less who know what consciousness is. As often stated by the Buddha, for the untrained consciousness is something that is not possible to understand.

Knowing they are both impermanent does not allow one to escape samsara does it?

That goes in direction: "Is there already faith in awakening?" If one would know, it would even no more a question as it would be already realiced.

Does Knowing they are both impermanent mean we will not be reborn again in other planes of existence?

If you really know (understand fully, have seen by our self), yes, no rebirth.

Do we see the limitations of the OP?

Where do you see a limitation in the OP?

More importantly, do we see a way out?

Do you see it(have already faith in it)?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:23 pm

Hanzze wrote:I refuse this statement totaly. Consciousness is at least a concept and even on a level of awarness, there are less who know what consciousness is. As often stated by the Buddha, for the untrained consciousness is something that is not possible to understand.


Hello Hanzze,

Why do you refuse that consciousness is a part of living beings?

Bhudda said it because the nature of consciousness cant be told like a silence, cant be paint like a canvas, cant be shown like a void, and so cant be thought or understud, because it's beyoud a noize, beyund color, beyound word,beyound form, beyound tought... Beyound all dhammas

Actualy consciousness is a part of all dhamma, even a stone.

Nature of dhammas
Dhammas
Consciousness
Anicca


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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby Hanzze » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:36 pm

DAWN wrote:Why do you refuse that consciousness is a part of living beings?

Do I? Maybe I expressed something not so well. It was meant in regard of "we all "know" it" in this sentence.

"Consciousness applies to every one of us, we all "know" it.....it is part of a human being."
- > I refuse this statement totaly.

Thanks for pointing that out.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:58 pm

Hanzze wrote:
DAWN wrote:Why do you refuse that consciousness is a part of living beings?

Do I? Maybe I expressed something not so well. It was meant in regard of "we all "know" it" in this sentence.

"Consciousness applies to every one of us, we all "know" it.....it is part of a human being."
- > I refuse this statement totaly.

Thanks for pointing that out.


Oh yes, i see, i'am sorry. I was a little surprised by this refutation. :namaste:

But, i'am sorry again, cause i will still not agree with you :?
Actualy, as i uderstand, we know it, but we dont know that we know. The consciousness, the act of "knowing", is, by his nature, a unconsicouss knowlegde of that knowledge.

Or perharps i dont uderstand again what exactly you refuse. :spy:
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby equilibrium » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:48 pm

Hanzze
Appreciate your responses but you have not understood the intentions in the post.....if you did, you will not be questioning.

I know that you know but it is not being directed to you but others.....the post has been notched down a little so to help others to understand, if you did, you will discover the OP limitations.....even if people were to read this thread and understood it entirely, they will not be able to "uncling".....and as per the OP, the question is asking "WHY?"....do you now see?

If anyone can now "uncling" after reading this thread.....most unlikely, then there is no requirement for further understanding as every being that has read this thread should now be awakened.....which am sure this is not the case.....would this not then reveal a limit to the OP?.....and have this thread reach there yet?.....or is it another wasted opportunity?
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:13 am

Dear Equilibrium,

I had such an foreboding but thought to put it on submit anyway. The limit of every topic is awakening (even a little) and if it leads to this or is in the right direction there is no limiting of the OP.

another wasted opportunity

Depends always on the own concentration. I guess its allways worthy to give not up and lift it more. Of cause sometimes such things as attachments to any point in the flow of a topic can make it impossible and so there is a new tread needed.

A great OP- question:

Why consciousness is impermanent ? and what is permanent ?

So let us give another try.

"Consciousness applies to every one of us, we all "know" it.....it is part of a human being."
- > I refuse this statement totaly.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby BlueLotus » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:36 am

acinteyyo wrote:
purple planet wrote:Just to make sure for you guys consciousness=mindfulness right ?

No, it's not purple planet. The Pali word sati = mindfulness and the Pali word viññāna = consciousness.

There are six classes of consciousness (viññāna) according to Sutta MN9:
"And what is consciousness? What is the origination of consciousness? What is the cessation of consciousness? What is the way of practice leading to the cessation of consciousness?
"There are these six classes of consciousness: eye-consciousness, ear-consciousness, nose-consciousness, tongue-consciousness, body-consciousness, intellect-consciousness. This is called consciousness

And it says in MN18:
"Dependent on eye & forms, eye-consciousness arises. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition, there is feeling. What one feels, one perceives (labels in the mind). What one perceives, one thinks about. What one thinks about, one objectifies. Based on what a person objectifies, the perceptions & categories of objectification assail him/her with regard to past, present, & future forms cognizable via the eye.
"Dependent on ear & sounds, ear-consciousness arises...
"Dependent on nose & aromas, nose-consciousness arises...
"Dependent on tongue & flavors, tongue-consciousness arises...
"Dependent on body & tactile sensations, body-consciousness arises...


For "sati" (mindfulness) I recommend Sutta DN22. In the translator's introduction you can read:
The role of mindfulness is to keep the mind properly grounded in the present moment in a way that will keep it on the path.


best wishes, acinteyyo


this good answer. I like it.
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby equilibrium » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:55 pm

Hanzze wrote:A great OP- question:

Why consciousness is impermanent ? and what is permanent ?

So let us give another try.

"Consciousness applies to every one of us, we all "know" it.....it is part of a human being."
- > I refuse this statement totaly.


If we do this, it is going to be a lot harder for others to understand, we now have 2 questions rather than one.
It is not between us, its about others, it is for their benefit and not ours.
What worries me is the original poster isn't even here, in active discussion.....as he is the one who is asking the question in the OP.....what is his current understanding of this thread? or is it already too much? do we know?

Regarding where you refuse this statement is perfectly true but between us, we understand but do they understand?....is it not too much for them already?.....this thread is not for us, it is for others and for their benefit and more importantly where are they?
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby Hanzze » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:50 am

Uninstructed

equilibrium, I don't know if we understand and I don't know if others would understand. Bluelotus reposted a good one for those who like to understand.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby EightWheel » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:57 pm

Thoughts are impernanet. Awareness is permanent. Awareness is what empowers your mind. Awareness is still there when you are sleeping (proof shout at someone while they are asleep). I see Awareness as ultimate reality and the true self.
The mind is the creator sustainer of both bliss and suffering. Why not fixate on bliss?
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby Ben » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:15 pm

EightWheel wrote:I see Awareness as ultimate reality and the true self.

Neither of which is supported by the Buddhadhamma.
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Re: Why consciousness is impermanent?

Postby Mal » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:44 pm

EightWheel wrote:Thoughts are impernanet. Awareness is permanent. Awareness is what empowers your mind. Awareness is still there when you are sleeping (proof shout at someone while they are asleep)... I see Awareness as ultimate reality and the true self.


Shout at someone when they are dead.

Will you see Awareness as ultimate reality when you are dead? How do you know?
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