How to see deeply into one's own mind?

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How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby whynotme » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:18 pm

Hi everyone,

Sometimes I feel something arise but I don't know why, e.g I suddenly feel fear, but don't know exactly what to fear. I don't know what is going on in the unconsciouness and I want to know what is going on in the unconsciouness state. How can I gain deep insight view of my own mind? Is jhana or samatha required? Or is there any other method?

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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby DAWN » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:58 pm

Have a pure and calm mind.

On the black canvas we cant see any color, but on the white (transparent like a glass is better) canvas we can see all colors
We cant see what is hidden on the fundus of a lake when there is a lot of vawes, but when it's smooth and calm we can see very clearly, exactly, and deeply.

When the canvas is clean, even a point is visible
When the water is calm, even a little vawe is visible

To see the light you must be dark
To see the dark you must be light

The same with mouvement, temperture, emotions ... all
Using duality to reach the nonduality
Sabbe dhamma anatta
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I'am sorry for my english
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby whynotme » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:53 am

Thank you DAWN, can you explain in a more simple way? E.g if I fear the spider, despite I know it can not harm me, but I still fear, I don't know what is wrong with me. How can I know what is wrong in my mind?

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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby DAWN » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:13 am

whynotme wrote:Thank you DAWN, can you explain in a more simple way?

I will try.
Actualy, conscioussness arise from difference, from duality. When your body is cold you are very sensitive to warm. When your eyes take a habit of dark, they comes very sensitive to the light. Calm is sensitive to mouvement. Proprety is sensetive to dirty.

So when your mind is clean and calm he becomes more sensitive to dirty and mouvement.

If we go more deeply, buddha nature is ABSOLUTELY pure, pure of everithing, void, that why we a conscious of everything, this consioussness arise from difference between our True Pure Nature of Buddha, and Dhammas.
Thats why The Buddha is called The-One-Hwo-Knows

whynotme wrote:E.g if I fear the spider, despite I know it can not harm me, but I still fear, I don't know what is wrong with me. How can I know what is wrong in my mind?

Regards


Oh yes spiders. Actualy i was feared by it some times ago, but now not.
I was remarkedtwo things :
- he is more affraid that you
- it just a quastion of habbit, when you see a spider once, and he dont harm you, afret you see the spider twice, he still not harm you, so at the trith time it become your friend :hug:

Now i love spiders, they are so cute and fragile :roll:
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby Hanzze » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:31 am

So we have a "True Pure Nature of Buddha"? Or real "I"?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby DAWN » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:03 am

Hanzze wrote:So we have a "True Pure Nature of Buddha"? Or real "I"?


Actuly is not we, that have it, but it that have us
Its not the picture that have a canvas, but canvas have the picture

Illusion of self arise cause the body have the capacity to remember phenomenas during its life.
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby Hanzze » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:07 am

DAWN wrote:Illusion of self arise cause the body have the capacity to remember phenomenas during its life.

No, actually the opposit. Because one does not remember, illusion comes into being again and again.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby DAWN » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:24 am

Hanzze wrote:
DAWN wrote:Illusion of self arise cause the body have the capacity to remember phenomenas during its life.

No, actually the opposit. Because one does not remember, illusion comes into being again and again.

It's true.

Actualy by this words you confirm it. Why?
Why do he forgot? Because the support of his memory is disapeareed, support of experiance is die, memory is die, but mouvement/interactions (kamma) still here, so new support arise.

If we watch deeply, we can see that there is no "ME" out of memory, out of experiance of this body.
Also we can see that when our mind established in the present moment, he dont know nothning, he is pure of memory, experiance, he is no more conditioned by past experiance and future wishes based on pasts experiance.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby Hanzze » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:05 am

Also we can see that when our mind established in the present moment, he dont know nothning, he is pure of memory, experiance, he is no more conditioned by past experiance and future wishes based on pasts experiance.

Poor being, hopefully it has understood depending co-arising befor that was happening. Even ballons have their limits in cruising range upwards.

If the memory is deleted befor understanding, that one is really in trouble. It's good good to keep it maintained well, of course there is no need to get attached by it and take it as real.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby DAWN » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:42 am

What the one will do with his memory after his death? with all his experiance after his death? with all his knowledge after his death?
When the body is death, the body is death. There is no soul.
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby Hanzze » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:21 am

...and the memeory remains... actually mostly not. There is just the flame of desire which gives a new rise. So we use mind to understand mind. Its not about polishing our mind to be eternal or destroy it to fade for ever. We use mind to understand it, we use it somehow against it self. For this porpose we need to train it, so that it would stay where we need it.

To go back on the topic. To be able to use our mind to look in our mind, we start to look around a little. Like if we are in a dirty house and realice that we are actually not in a good an health situation.
We start to abstain from making dirt. It would be nonsens to start to clean, if we do not reduce or even abstain form making dirt. This we make in observing precepts. Then we also give away and clean the rooms a little from thinks we do not need. It does not make sense if we start washing the floor and 1001 things are standing around. They are not only dirt catcher but also hide dirty palces. This we practice by letting go of possesion (Dana) and then we start to clean.
The better we observe to abstain from making new dirt and the better we have cleared the field form unnessesarities, the more success will we have to reach the real floor and get to know it.
We can wash and clean as crazy if the do not clear the field and abstain from makeing more dirt as naturally. This is the way to be able to see deeper in ones mind. Even it seems that there is a quicker way, it is not possible beside it.
When we have cleaned it on a raw level, we are able to contionue with samadi. To try samadi without those needs amoung or befor it, will not bring success. Even if we might be able to reach the floor by polishing a small part, the nessesary surface is not reached yet. It could be even that we are frustrated if we have seen the clear floor but facing the dirt everywhere. So a solide step by step work with a lot of faith and trust is very wise and even sustainable.

Some would face a situation where they only need to polish one time because they used to work on it for a long time in the past. But to be in such a situation is somehow rare. So there is nothing lost anyway to make it according to the prescription.
A good cleansman enemy is slatternliness, starting from down and cleaning the upper later; laziness, don't clear the field from object fist; hastiness, don't make it step by step and just blur the dirt; and lacking in concentration, steping with his dirty feets into the clean areas again.

It's somehow a good training to start cleaning outwardly and get the chaos around one self sorted. How could one see his mind, clean his mind if he is not able to maintain orderliness, discipline and cleaness outside? Swepping, washing, sorting are good trainings, especial if they are even done slowly and mindfully.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby m0rl0ck » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:41 am

To see clearly into the true nature of mind, follow these 2 easy steps:

1. Pick a meditation method from one of the major traditions, its good to pick one that has a teacher within comparatively easy access in case you need advice.

2. Practice with regularity, sincerity and fearlessness.

Following the above steps, you virtually cannot fail to learn something about mind.
"When you meditate, don't send your mind outside. Don't fasten onto any knowledge at all. Whatever knowledge you've gained from books or teachers, don't bring it in to complicate things. Cut away all preoccupations, and then as you meditate let all your knowledge come from what's going on in the mind. When the mind is quiet, you'll know it for yourself. But you have to keep meditating a lot. When the time comes for things to develop, they'll develop on their own. Whatever you know, have it come from your own mind.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... eleft.html
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby whynotme » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:18 am

Thank you Hanzze, DAWN and m0rl0ck.

As I disagree with many teachers who claimed attained samatha or jhana, I don't think samatha or jhana alone can help seeing truly deeply into the mind. I try to see the problem in the wide common sense/ seek resolutions from as many sources as possible. To me the teaching of the Buddha is the best but translating classical texts into actual understanding and achievement is quite a hard work. So any advice is welcome, even from science, psychology, different traditions..

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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby Hanzze » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:19 am

But away all "science, psychology, different traditions" first.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby whynotme » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:39 am

Hanzze wrote:But away all "science, psychology, different traditions" first.

I didn't understanding what you really meant. Please write it clearer

Regards.
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby Hanzze » Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:29 am

Dear whynotme,

its not really helpful to squash Buddhas way into a construct out of "science, psychology, different traditions". Its much better to give away one and addopt the new.

There was an occation where a follower of another sect wanted to join the Sangha. Buddha refused and told him to get free of his old ideas first. Its better to empty the way of thoughts from trash and incomplete things first and only after that take the new perceptions which are required to walk the way. Riding on two vehicles at the same time might be hurtful and risky.

You need always support
Image

To give away the old intelectual possession is sometimes the most difficult "letting go".
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:27 am

Just look at you breath.

It's the whool path.
All the rest is for fun.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
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I'am sorry for my english
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby whynotme » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:41 am

Hanzze wrote:Dear whynotme,

its not really helpful to squash Buddhas way into a construct out of "science, psychology, different traditions". Its much better to give away one and addopt the new.

There was an occation where a follower of another sect wanted to join the Sangha. Buddha refused and told him to get free of his old ideas first. Its better to empty the way of thoughts from trash and incomplete things first and only after that take the new perceptions which are required to walk the way. Riding on two vehicles at the same time might be hurtful and risky.

You need always support

To give away the old intelectual possession is sometimes the most difficult "letting go".

Dear Hanzze,

No, I don't mean riding two vehicles at the same time. I don't know how to tell this to you, it is just a risk lowering process. You need skill to solve actual problems, and I just try to translate knowledge to skill

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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby Hanzze » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:57 am

Yes, whynotme, therfore throw the knowledge (the needed will come up by it self) away and go to the field work. I am sure a meditation teacher or a retreat is very helpful aside to fist steps of Dana and Sila.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Postby whynotme » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:07 am

Hanzze wrote:Yes, whynotme, therfore throw the knowledge (the needed will come up by it self) away and go to the field work. I am sure a meditation teacher or a retreat is very helpful aside to fist steps of Dana and Sila.

Thank Hanzze,

No I will not rush to the field. It seems you often view others through your imagination. Do you assume that I never go to the field or a retreat? Those things I said based on many years of my experience, I am not that a novice. I had rushed to monasteries, lived there learning in the past then I saw it didn't solve my problem. Now I see I must rely on myself, not others, not teachers, I didn't mean to discredit them, but I don't think doing some specific works like a retreat will solve my problems. In every field, to really solve problems relate to oneself, one must rely on himself, has responsibility for himself even with going forward and backward. Of course some great teachers may help, but maybe my merit isn't enough to meet them or get their guide. But in every case, even with others' guide or not, I must fully rely on myself, there is no easy fast food way for the dhamma. It is my problem, eveyone can help, but only me can solve it.

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