The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby Hanzze » Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:38 am

Jeffrey posted on another topic a very interesting movie: http://schoolingtheworld.org/

I thought to take it as a starter to discuss the phenomena of collective karma in relation with the "Bodhisattva ideal" and general tendencies of Buddhist groups today. Also it's maybe useful to understand karma (which we normaly observe in our self because it's difficult to see it on a bigger screen) and as well the way out of such a circle like Buddha had taught.

Usually we tend to react and in this way we put additional fuel into the fire. How ever "compassionated" it might be motivated, if there is no wisdom behind this compassion, it runs somehow wrong.

I am aware that the Theravada Tradition does not put much interest into collective Karma, still such collective Karma is something that is also not denied able. In our very hard bounded and independent sociaty over the last centuries, collective delusions have more and more dramatical effects. Of cause, we can not change others but only our own habits. There is plenty enought work and so there is not much interest naturally in this tradition (I even would say form a Dhamma point of view). But still we are thinking in frames of our group, kin, nation, what ever and often very less in simply our own sphere (with its causes and effets).

The very strong "compassionated" intention of "modern" Buddhist sociaty might addopt something which is a little aside of what was recommended by the Buddha into the Dhamma "practice". Somehow a continuing of old archetype and habits.

Please do not understand it wrong as a simply burden of the white man, but more over a burden of the intelectual man. So it's not about any specific nation, or group of people distinct by skin color, birth, religion or what ever, but of a flow caused by actions who ever is part of such a flow.

So my critical question is, would something like teaching Dhamma as a reaction to and out the burden (caused by past actions) not eventually simply continue this flow?
How can we be secure to do mistakes not on and on, just in another way?
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby Ben » Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:52 am

Greetings Hanzze,

I'm not sure what you mean by the 'white man's burden'.
Its understandable that some people believe in collective kamma when they witness events such as the Boxing Day Tsunami that wiped out hundreds of thousands of people from Sri Lanka, Thailand and Indonesia. However, what we know of the Dhamma is that kamma is generated by the individual and its result also experienced by the individual.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby Hanzze » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:17 am

Dear Ben,

It (The white man's burden) is in relation to the website titel and the movie as well as to the tendency of missionary and educating others (which is in this/our times, of cause not always!, a outstanding sign of the white man and we do not face similar phenomenas from others yet)
Of couse it's also used to touch others as we mostly start to look, when we feel approach.

In regard of collectiv karma. Generally I agree with you, it's just so, that today we are able to see the function of karma even on a greater scale. Don't forget a person a being is at least also a compounding of many smaller parts. So when we face the illusion of a nation for example it is not much different to the illusion of a person at least.

Similar cetana will effect similar resuts, volution is kamma. Collective (equal) kamma produces equal effects, of couse not linear and mixed with uncountable other effect and reactions but would in some how always lead to similar appearences. Like for example birth under wise or unwise people. On a place of bliss or what ever.

From a Abhidhamma view, it's a little explained here: . As told before, its clear that it does not make much sense to speculate and hammer ones brain to look through it, but it might bring some general realications.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
DAWN
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Re: The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:52 am

Ego , Identification , Label is the cause of all suffering.

A Virus have two aim : eat and self multiply.

Actualy the problem is no te "white peoples kamma burden", but just "humanity kamma burden".
Distruction distruction distruction :toilet:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby Hanzze » Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:05 am

Well we need to be careful to do not addopt a selfcreated replacement-guilt-feeling which "humanity kamma burden" would carry as well. Guilt feelings are often the drive for strange actions beside of focusing on ourselves/oneself. When ever there is a dislike of one self, such things arise with indentification. Affection and aversion a twins, dancing around the self.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
DAWN
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Re: The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby DAWN » Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:32 am

Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby ground » Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:04 am


User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:06 am

To be ignorant of ignorance is of coures another danger, thank's for your reminding my friend.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby ground » Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:11 am


User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:05 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby ground » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:37 am


User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:43 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby ground » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:42 am


User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:48 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby ground » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:53 am


User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:13 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby ground » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:22 am


User avatar
DAWN
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Re: The white man's burden, collective karma, Bodhisattva ideal

Postby DAWN » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:39 am

To Hanzze,

Actualy, wisdom and compassion, have a same nature, it's the same state. Like mirrow who is compationate and wise.

To ground,


It's true that you say, that there is no annica, no dukkha, no-self. But, if we take exemple of my militant behavour, do i made the choice to be an militant? Do i suffer?
Like somebody who can contemplain his life, askig : "Friend whay do you try to help, to do somethink, to change something?". So the other reply : "There is conditions to that, so it have to be done, so i contemply it?"

Actualy, the comassionastest and wisest action of NO-ACTION, of corse, can be tradused by body, but for me this compassion/wisdom have more "internal" application. :meditate:
Anyway both is possible, we have just to Ordain. :candle: :buddha1: :candle:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...


Return to “Connections to Other Paths”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine