Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

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Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby BlueLotus » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:32 am

I thought of buying Majjhima Nikaya hard copy book. But I don't know whose translation is best and most accurate. What do you recommend?

I am quite an old man who is adicted to hard copy books like in the good old day. It is hard for me to read internet long paragraphs. I also use a borrowed machine from a friend. So hard copy book is best for me.

:namaste:
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby daverupa » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:35 am

http://www.amazon.com/Middle-Length-Dis ... 086171072X

There are a few different editions, which differ in the translations chosen for a few terms, but any of them will probably be quite suitable.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby BlueLotus » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:39 am

thank you.

My question is the translator. Who is the best according to you please? There is bhikku bodi, another guy called horner, Buddha Gotama etc.
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby daverupa » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:46 am

The translations from Bhikkhu Bodhi are quite serviceable in my opinion, but I don't think that literalism is very important in understanding the Dhamma - I tend to re-read phrases with Pali terms put in places where English translations vary widely, as a precaution.

So, for specific phrases and whatnot, a personal understanding of Pali becomes important, but as a preliminary caution with respect to Bhikkhu Bodhi's efforts you might enjoy reading this.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:56 am

BlueLotus wrote:thank you.

My question is the translator. Who is the best according to you please? There is bhikku bodi, another guy called horner, Buddha Gotama etc.

The Buddha Gotama's English translations are exquisite :lol:

Bodhi is perfectly good, I wouldn't worry about it; short of learning Pali, it's probably the best avenue available.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby BlueLotus » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:03 am

daverupa wrote:The translations from Bhikkhu Bodhi are quite serviceable in my opinion, but I don't think that literalism is very important in understanding the Dhamma - I tend to re-read phrases with Pali terms put in places where English translations vary widely, as a precaution.

So, for specific phrases and whatnot, a personal understanding of Pali becomes important, but as a preliminary caution with respect to Bhikkhu Bodhi's efforts you might enjoy reading this.


Thank you both of you.

daverupa, you made my day! I am worried about mistranslation because I don't have much dhamma knowlege. So your PDF file really helped. thank you again :anjali:
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:22 am

Dear BlueLotus,

Here are also a lot of translations even from different Translator: Majjhima Nikaya
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:19 am

BlueLotus wrote:thank you.

My question is the translator. Who is the best according to you please? There is bhikku bodi, another guy called horner, Buddha Gotama etc.

I.B. Horner is not a guy, but a woman. She was a good Pali scholar and translated several works for the PTS including the Majjhimanikāya, Milindapañha, and Vinaya. Her nephew is Ajahn Amaro, the current abbot of Amaravati monastery. Her translations are good, but Bhikkhu Bodhi's is the one to go for — his notes from the Commentaries are extremely helpful.
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby DAWN » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:10 am

Hard Copy Book is the best.
I'am young but reading on internet is not the same, so i bought DN MN an SN in hard copy :reading:

Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi seems to me the best translator. But is an subjective opinion, so i cant give advice.

With Regards :namaste:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby Mal » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:26 am

When starting to read the Pali suttas translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi is it best to start with "In the Buddha's Words: An Anthology of Discourses from the Pali Canon" or to plunge straight into the Majjhima Nikaya?
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:24 pm

Mal wrote:When starting to read the Pali suttas translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi is it best to start with "In the Buddha's Words: An Anthology of Discourses from the Pali Canon" or to plunge straight into the Majjhima Nikaya?

I honestly don't know why the Majjhima Nikaya is recommended as a starting point - I think the Samyutta Nikaya is far, far better for beginners.

But either way, it's probably best to do the anthology. The Nikayas can be rough without some guidance.

And Bodhi has some great study materials here if you do go into the MN: http://bodhimonastery.org/a-systematic- ... ikaya.html
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby piotr » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:34 pm

Hi,

Mal wrote:When starting to read the Pali suttas translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi is it best to start with "In the Buddha's Words: An Anthology of Discourses from the Pali Canon" or to plunge straight into the Majjhima Nikaya?


It can be compared to learning to swim: when you start with any Nikāya, it's like jumping into deep water in the middle of a lake. When you start with an anthology, it's like taking a course in swimming. Either way may work, but probably it's safer to start with an anthology. “In the Buddha's Words” is a great choice.
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby daverupa » Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:14 am

LonesomeYogurt wrote:I honestly don't know why the Majjhima Nikaya is recommended as a starting point - I think the Samyutta Nikaya is far, far better for beginners.


The MN highlights the gradual training, which is one reason why I think it's better for beginners.

The SN doesn't have this structure; it begins with rather obtuse poetry, in the Pali recension, and then proceeds into the most difficult aspect of the Dhamma - paticcasamuppada - leaving Path aspects for the very end. Quite unsuitable for the beginner.

Readers of the MN also benefit from a wide range of translations, much discussion online, and a swath of historical-critical studies, including Analayo's comparative analysis of the MN with Chinese parallels. It's also a nice cross-section of themes which can be found throughout the Nikayas, and it offers a wealth of similes.

The SN, by contrast, provides little narrative, and therefore human, context alongside a concomitant fixation on providing all possible iterations of certain themes, which is a monolithic entity for someone just starting out. There are gems in them thar hills, but it's more suitable for an intermediate exploration of detailed issues which have arisen in practice, imo.

Finally, as Analayo discusses, the MN's division into sections with 50/50/52 chapters is such that the first 50 chapters can be taken as a single unit, which a reciter would have mastered before moving on to the next 50. In this way, the text has been organized into a much more manageable size than with the SN.

:heart:
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:24 am

I agree with Dave. The MN has all the key points of doctrine, in nice sized chunks suitable for discussion, which is why you'll find lots of on-line talks about them.
http://bodhimonastery.org/a-systematic- ... ikaya.html
http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/component/ ... study.html
http://www.dhammasukha.org/Study/recent.htm
and many others....

In the Buddha's Words has a nice set of talks too. See: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2392
It's worth listening to Bhikkhu Bodhi's talks, since (like most people) he is a little freer with his opinions than he probably wants to be in books.

:anjali:
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:10 pm

Thank you friends.

I don't think i can read a lot of things. I just need basic guide like MN to get to know a bit more. Then I will practice and understand the rest. Reading the whole 3 pitaka is not my intentions. I feel it is too much.
Maybe I am mistaken.
:anjali:
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby daverupa » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:40 pm

BlueLotus wrote:Reading the whole 3 pitaka is not my intentions. I feel it is too much.
Maybe I am mistaken.
:anjali:


Not mistaken at all - some can memorize the whole Tipitaka, while there is a case in the Suttas of a monk memorizing just a portion of the Sutta Nipata, which the Buddha lauded.

Practice with admirable friends, as well as in solitude, and even short texts will continue to teach you. Just don't make the mistake of framing your whole practice around one or two phrases.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby Mal » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:19 pm

BlueLotus wrote:Thank you friends.

I don't think i can read a lot of things. I just need basic guide like MN to get to know a bit more...



The MN is not "a basic guide". Why not start with the anthology mentioned above? Or something more basic, like Rahula "What the Buddha Taught"?
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya Guide for an Old Man

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:18 pm

Thank you. I have a very basic understanding I think. 4 noble truths etc.
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