Hi
I may be going to Wat Ram Poeng in Thailand that uses the Mahasi technique or something similar (focuses on abdomen and then uses "sitting" and "touching" (a number of spots on the body) between the in out breath and the in breath).
I really want to go to Wat Ram Poeng, set up looks good and looks quite intense. However, I am much much happier focusing the breathing on the nostrils (is natural for me and is a tool to stay present in day to day life). I have seen in a couple of places on the internet that the original Mahasi meditation centres do allow people to focus on the breath at the nostrils if they so desire / insist.
Does anyone have any experience of Mahasi and focusing on the nostrils and if so how do you do the "sitting" "touching" as there is no time / much less time between out breath and in breath when focusing at the nostrils (rather than the abdomen)?
Any thoughts much appreciated
Cheers
Robin
Experience of Mahasi method but focusing on nostrils?
-
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:21 pm
- Location: England
- LonesomeYogurt
- Posts: 900
- Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
- Location: America
Re: Experience of Mahasi method but focusing on nostrils?
I've never come in contact with a Mahasi teacher who forbid it - but your best option is to email them or ask directly. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
EDIT: Totally misunderstood that question. I would recommend trying to do the abdomen noting while you're there, simply because I really do think that it is more conducive to a mindfulness approach. If you're trying to do Mahasi Vipasanna then noting at the nose can sometimes derail into pure samatha.
EDIT: Totally misunderstood that question. I would recommend trying to do the abdomen noting while you're there, simply because I really do think that it is more conducive to a mindfulness approach. If you're trying to do Mahasi Vipasanna then noting at the nose can sometimes derail into pure samatha.
Last edited by LonesomeYogurt on Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.
Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.
His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta
Stuff I write about things.
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.
Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.
His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta
Stuff I write about things.
- Bhikkhu Pesala
- Posts: 4647
- Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm
Re: Experience of Mahasi method but focusing on nostrils?
If you want to go there and practise the Mahasi method, try to follow the instructions given to focus on the abdominal movements. If your mind wanders to the nostrils, as it will due to force of habit, just acknowledge the touch of the breath, then resume noting the abdominal movements.
Follow the basic instruction — “Be mindful of each and every mental and physical phenomenon that arises throughout the entire day, without missing anything.”
Have you done full time intensive practice before?
Follow the basic instruction — “Be mindful of each and every mental and physical phenomenon that arises throughout the entire day, without missing anything.”
Have you done full time intensive practice before?
Blog • Pāli Fonts • In This Very Life • Buddhist Chronicles • Software (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
Re: Experience of Mahasi method but focusing on nostrils?
I think Bhikkhu Pesala makes a good point. Try it, and see how it works. If I go on a retreat with a teacher who teaches differently from what is "normal" for me I try to follow the instructions. And I usually learn something. My main teachers have been Mahasi-style, but I found going on a Goenka retreat a few years ago very helpful.
Mike
Mike
-
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:21 pm
- Location: England
Re: Experience of Mahasi method but focusing on nostrils?
Thanks a lot (all). I have done 3 Goenka courses and one 10 day Mahasi style (but that was 10 years ago and I remember the abdomen approach being difficult then). What I really like about the nostril approach is you can use it in day to day life walking around which helps keep you present (it is much more difficult to feel abdomen when moving around)Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:If you want to go there and practise the Mahasi method, try to follow the instructions given to focus on the abdominal movements. If your mind wanders to the nostrils, as it will due to force of habit, just acknowledge the touch of the breath, then resume noting the abdominal movements.
Follow the basic instruction — “Be mindful of each and every mental and physical phenomenon that arises throughout the entire day, without missing anything.”
Have you done full time intensive practice before?
- LonesomeYogurt
- Posts: 900
- Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
- Location: America
Re: Experience of Mahasi method but focusing on nostrils?
I think that's part of the problem though - Mahasi isn't really that focused on the breath during walking meditation or day to day life. When walking, you should note "walking, walking" or even "rising, moving, stepping." Perhaps getting a secondary meditation object (the abdomen) could help broaden your mindfulness horizons, so to speak.nomorecurries wrote:Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: Thanks a lot (all). I have done 3 Goenka courses and one 10 day Mahasi style (but that was 10 years ago and I remember the abdomen approach being difficult then). What I really like about the nostril approach is you can use it in day to day life walking around which helps keep you present (it is much more difficult to feel abdomen when moving around)
As someone who mainly does breath meditation at the nose as well, I can definitely sympathize with what you're saying, but I really do think the Mahasi mindfulness all the time approach works better with abdomen watching.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.
Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.
His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta
Stuff I write about things.
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.
Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.
His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta
Stuff I write about things.
- Bhikkhu Pesala
- Posts: 4647
- Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm
Re: Experience of Mahasi method but focusing on nostrils?
You're not supposed to be aware of the abdominal movements when moving around. You're supposed to be aware of the movements of the limbs when moving around, specifically the movements of the feet. Contemplation of the abdominal movements and the movements of the limbs is paying attention to the element of motion (vāyo dhātu), which is the section in the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta called attention to the lements (dhātumānasikāra). It is not mindfulness of breathing.nomorecurries wrote:What I really like about the nostril approach is you can use it in day to day life walking around which helps keep you present (it is much more difficult to feel abdomen when moving around)
Noting the abdominal movements is just one of many objects of awareness. It is called the primary object, but that applies only to sitting meditation. If other objects intrude, such as wandering thoughts, pain, sounds, etc., they become the object of contemplation at that moment. After noting the secondary objects until they disappear, one can resume noting the abdominal movements. After some days of practice, noting will become semi-automatic through repeated and diligent practice.
The mental noting is nothing but initial application (vitakka), which pushes the mind towards the current object to be contemplated. In the Satipaṭṭhāna method, the meditation object is constantly changing throughout the day. All four foundation of mindfulness must be embraced: the body or physical phenomena, the feelings (both physical and mental feelings), consciousness (seeing, hearing, etc.), and mental states (sensual desire, ill-will, sloth, restelessness, doubt, joy, energy, concentration, etc.)
If you have time, read at least some of "In this Very Life," (the link in my signature) before you go (it may be too much to try to take it all in within a short period). Read at least Practical Insight Meditation.
Blog • Pāli Fonts • In This Very Life • Buddhist Chronicles • Software (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
-
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:21 pm
- Location: England
Re: Experience of Mahasi method but focusing on nostrils?
Just to say many thanks all for your kind replies to my questions. Much appreciated
Robin
Robin
Re: Experience of Mahasi method but focusing on nostrils?
Check out the writings of Ven. U Silananda, specifically his book The Four Foundations of Mindfulness. He is a student of Mahasi Sayadaw who teaches Mahasi method but with attention placed on the nostrils during meditation.
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
Re: Experience of Mahasi method but focusing on nostrils?
I found focusing on which nostril is actually in use very useful, as they change every some hours. Needs a lot of effort to see the arising and fading away. Most are even not aware of this permanent change.
So which nostril are you using (is in use) right now?
So which nostril are you using (is in use) right now?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_