Modified the list? In what way have I modified the list. I have neither change the order nor remove any item from the list in M ii 83.tiltbillings wrote: You have modified/explained this list in a way that is simply unconvincing, and you have shown absolutely no justification for your interpretations of each item.
Explained the list in a way that is unconvinving? Yes, I guess that may be true.
Excuse me tilt,None of the many suttas that use this list support your modification of the list in this way. This is not a list of progression. I'll go with Occam Razor here. It is far more simply a list showing different aspects of of the same thing. You also ignore the fact the most of the items in this list, as stated, are used specifically to refer to the goal, as I have shown, as is plainly obvious with virāga: S.N. IV 371: "That which is the destruction of greed, hatred and delusion is destruction of craving [virāga]." Your discussion of cessation, I find equally unconvincing. Cessation is used repeatedly at the end of a number progressive paticcasamuppada type lists to indicate nibbana. You have made things far too complicated where it seems it is far more straightforward.
craving: (f.) taṇhā; nikanti; abhijjhā.
It is not virāga.
Because the experience of (Sam)bodhi is caused by maturing of the seven factor of wakening.And why would the experience of sambodhi be any different from the experience of nibbana?
But Nibbana is technically not “an experience” of any sort.
We?I am thinking here that we are not going to agree on these matters.
If you are implying that you no longer want to discuss the matter further with me, that is ok with me.
But I prefer to speak for myself that I am open to other interpretation. If you said, as you mentioned responding to dymtro, that the list “characterized” Nibbana. Yes, I can agree that the list can be a descriptive list (a non progressive list) in the sense that the surface tension, the polarity , … , the liquidity, “characterized” liquid water. In this sense the whole six items on the list “characterized” Nibbana.
But that is quite different from what you originally said: which is Nirodha, (Sam)bodhi (all six items on the list?) are “synonymous” with Nibbana. That is like saying liquidity is synonymous with liquid water. Which does not make sense because there are other matter that have the property of liquidity, not just liquid water.