Untangling myself from incorrect view

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
curious_buddhist
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:13 am

Untangling myself from incorrect view

Postby curious_buddhist » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:05 am

Hi everyone

I am in the process of untangling myself from the effects of some damaging teachings I received by a questionable monk whom I took refuge under several years ago.

My question concerns the development of sila, samadhi and panne. Am I right in saying that concentration and wisdom cannot develop in the absence of ethical conduct, or at best just a weak form of wisdom can be achieved?

I was observing the five precepts, abstaining from intoxicants. This particular teacher suggested that I was 'fixated' on developing moral conduct and that I needed to drink to let go of this fixation. His justification was that once you've let go of attachment to such things as alcohol, money, etc you are free to engage in their use and live in the world. I've never seen a monk drink alcohol like this guy, not to mention taking students out for cocktails and drinks at his retreats.

What on earth is a monk doing encouraging students to break the five precepts? What on earth is monk doing breaking the most basic precepts?

Anyone should at least be honest with others and oneself that they are not observing precepts, rather than wriggling their way out and trying to justify breaking them. I haven't seen anywhere in the suttas the Lord Buddha saying I have now abandoned all conditioned existence, time to indulge in drugs, alcohol and sex because I'm no longer attached, right?

Thanks for your advice
:namaste:
Lord Buddha: Sariputta, do you believe this teaching
Sariputta: No, I don't yet believe it
Lord Buddha: Good, good, Sariputta. A wise person doesn't readily believe, he should consider first before believing

pegembara
Posts: 1140
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Untangling myself from incorrect view

Postby pegembara » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:10 am

And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Untangling myself from incorrect view

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:17 am

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


curious_buddhist
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:13 am

Re: Untangling myself from incorrect view

Postby curious_buddhist » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:54 am

Thanks for your response.

I should clarify that his comments strictly relate to the consumption of alcohol, and not the other things I mentioned.
Lord Buddha: Sariputta, do you believe this teaching
Sariputta: No, I don't yet believe it
Lord Buddha: Good, good, Sariputta. A wise person doesn't readily believe, he should consider first before believing

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LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Untangling myself from incorrect view

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:01 am

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


curious_buddhist
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:13 am

Re: Untangling myself from incorrect view

Postby curious_buddhist » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:28 am

Yes, this was but one of many dubious practices I witnessed being performed by this monk. The moment I started hearing claims of his "miraculous ability to control the weather" I got as far away from his organisation as possible.

I pray that he sees the error in his ways and that none of his students are hurt by these practices.
Lord Buddha: Sariputta, do you believe this teaching
Sariputta: No, I don't yet believe it
Lord Buddha: Good, good, Sariputta. A wise person doesn't readily believe, he should consider first before believing

User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Untangling myself from incorrect view

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:37 am

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


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m0rl0ck
Posts: 1160
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:51 am

Re: Untangling myself from incorrect view

Postby m0rl0ck » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:39 am

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Untangling myself from incorrect view

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:13 am

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


User avatar
m0rl0ck
Posts: 1160
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:51 am

Re: Untangling myself from incorrect view

Postby m0rl0ck » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:25 am

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

barcsimalsi
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:33 am

Re: Untangling myself from incorrect view

Postby barcsimalsi » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:20 pm


User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Untangling myself from incorrect view

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:55 pm

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


curious_buddhist
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:13 am

Re: Untangling myself from incorrect view

Postby curious_buddhist » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:24 am

Thanks for all your advice on this one.

Yes, I'm fortunate to have one of Ajahn Chah's branch monasteries close by so I've begun attending teachings there and noticing a general improvement in my practice ever since.

My experience has led me to question everything I am taught, inadvertently placing me in a position where I don't immediately accept what I'm told simply on the basis of tradition or of the charm of the person saying it.
Lord Buddha: Sariputta, do you believe this teaching
Sariputta: No, I don't yet believe it
Lord Buddha: Good, good, Sariputta. A wise person doesn't readily believe, he should consider first before believing

User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Untangling myself from incorrect view

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:44 am

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta



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