Question about Brahma and Mara

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Question about Brahma and Mara

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:54 am

I have question about Brahma. Some say he is just a metaphor but he and Mara appears many places. Hard to say they are just mental.

My question is this. In MN 49 Brahma trying to discourage Buddha telling him that his enlightenment is not real. And he will be born again in low states.

But in another sutta when Buddha realized nibbana and decided he cannot teach anyone Brahma is the guy to come and encourage him to do so.

What do you make of this contradictory role of Brahma?
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Re: Question about Brhma and Mara

Postby santa100 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:26 am

Brahma is a class of being in the heavenly worlds. So just like there're many humans, there're many brahma's out there. In MN 49, it was Baka the Brahma who had the wrong view. And in MN 26, it was Sahampati the Brahma who asked the Buddha to teach the Dhamma. The link below shows a wide variety of all the different realms of existence: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... /loka.html
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Re: Question about Brhma and Mara

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:41 am

Thank you so much. I got all confused.

But Mara is one person right? In another sutta I saw Mara entered the belly of Ven Moggallana and tried to harass him. I am thinking how an entity like that harass an enlightened being? If Mara can harass an enlighten one can Mara harass us too? We are more unenlightened people. Can Mara's forces divert us from the path?
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Re: Question about Brhma and Mara

Postby santa100 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:51 am

Mara has a few different meanings (symbolic and literal sense) as described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_(demon)
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Re: Question about Brhma and Mara

Postby whynotme » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:31 am

BlueLotus wrote:Thank you so much. I got all confused.

But Mara is one person right? In another sutta I saw Mara entered the belly of Ven Moggallana and tried to harass him. I am thinking how an entity like that harass an enlightened being? If Mara can harass an enlighten one can Mara harass us too? We are more unenlightened people. Can Mara's forces divert us from the path?

Mara also may refer to many devas, like brahma. Of course he can harass us, but don't worry too much, there are billions people in the world, if I am Mara I would have a hard time finding my target. If you read more suttas, you will see Mara failed on many occasions. Because he only has a few tricks, if you keep your mind opened, listen to reasonable words with right attitude, I don't see Mara can divert you or anyone from the path.

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Re: Question about Brahma and Mara

Postby gavesako » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:52 am

The place of Mara in the 31 planes of existence is discussed in this article:
http://www.nippapanca.org/articles/31%2 ... stence.pdf
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

ajahnchah.org - Teachings of Ajahn Chah in many languages
Dhammatube - Videos on Buddhist practice
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
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Re: Question about Brahma and Mara

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:30 pm

I believed Mara real and then I saw he had 3 voluptuous daughters. :jawdrop: Now I feel the whole thing is stupid day dream. It sound too good to be real. But suttas talk aboout Mara a lot it is hard to not believe too.
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Re: Question about Brahma and Mara

Postby whynotme » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:34 pm

It would be weird if you believe in brahma but not in mara.

Well, in the 19th century, could anyone believe that the faster you go the slower the time? Or wireless communication, flying plane, submarine, nuclear energy, aren't they magic? And even in recent time, science doesn't know anything about consciousness. The masses is just consumers of media and advertisements. I say don't trust politicians and scientists too much, they don't have responsibility for your life, if they are wrong they can only say sorry, that is all.There are many paranormal phenomena around the world, be wise

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Re: Question about Brahma and Mara

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:38 pm

The evil but voluptuous daughters story doesn't fit in. It sound like some old man fantasy story. :woohoo:
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