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Is a UK student loan considered debt - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

Is a UK student loan considered debt

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
Mal
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Mal » Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:04 pm

Interesting that all the UK posters in this thread suggest that a senior monk might see the UK student loan as not really a loan! So it might be worth seeking out a senior monk of UK origin if you are from the UK, he is likely to understand your situation better.

Until the 1980s students (like me) got grants in the UK, so I think any fair minded person in the UK detests that today's students have to take out a massive "loan". To keep fair minded people from (peaceful) revolution on the streets the government have tweeked it just enough, making it, in effect, not a loan, but a tax for well paid graduates (which is just about supportable - but I still think everyone should get grants, and rich old parents/bankers should get taxed.)

Mawkish1983
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Mawkish1983 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:07 pm

Banks and building societies don't consider a UK student loan as a debt. Having one of any size has no impact on one's ability to procure a loan or a mortgage from a bank. If even financial lenders don't consider it a debt, would the vinaya?

Mawkish1983
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Mawkish1983 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:09 pm

(Not rhetorical)

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daverupa
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby daverupa » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:37 pm


santa100
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby santa100 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:49 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:01 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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daverupa
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby daverupa » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:18 pm

Right; I was citing the other rule simply for its use of language with respect to defining theft according to secular understandings (e.g. the king). If this confused anyone, sorry about that.

So, it isn't the same rule, but the one which is directly related to debt is built on a foundation of lay complaint... that means the people might choose, later, to not care about this particular dukkata in reference to student loans... seems they've done something like that in the UK...

Mawkish1983
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Mawkish1983 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:23 pm


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James the Giant
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby James the Giant » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:04 pm

All right, I changed my mind then. Going by what Cittasanto quoted, it seems ok.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.

Mal
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Mal » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:59 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby daverupa » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:32 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:04 pm

Last edited by Cittasanto on Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:18 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:31 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Mawkish1983
Posts: 1286
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Mawkish1983 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:40 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:53 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Mawkish1983
Posts: 1286
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Mawkish1983 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:42 am

(Just look at how attached to the view 'a UK student loan is not a debt' I am! Regardless of whether it'd inhibit ordination or not, I'm a long way off being ready anyway!)

Mal
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Mal » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:35 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:34 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Mawkish1983
Posts: 1286
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Mawkish1983 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:54 pm

Plus, I don't think 'right view' as a doctrinal term includes opinions like those discussed here; I think it refers to the dhamma seals


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