Is a UK student loan considered debt

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Cittasanto
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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:45 pm

Mawkish1983 wrote:Plus, I don't think 'right view' as a doctrinal term includes opinions like those discussed here; I think it refers to the dhamma seals

it would just be a view that is factually correct, (which is a simple way of saying what I said earlier as I said it :P)
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Mal » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:00 pm

Mawkish1983 wrote:Plus, I don't think 'right view' as a doctrinal term includes opinions like those discussed here; I think it refers to the dhamma seals


You are right, of course.

Apologies, should have added a smiley, or better, not have attempted to be ironic.

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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Mawkish1983 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:16 pm

Mal wrote:Apologies, should have added a smiley, or better, not have attempted to be ironic.

No need to apologise, I rarely realise if someone is being ironic or sarcastic despite my ability to be sarcastic or ironic myself. I understand the joke now.

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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby ricebowl » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:51 pm

marcpiano wrote:Hi all,

Is a UK student loan (ie through the Student Loans Company rather than a private arrangement between an individual and a bank) considered a debt for the purposes of fulfilling the pre-requisites for ordination?

Its repayment is linked to earnings (so if you're unemployed, you don't pay it back until you gain employment) and it is automatically cleared after 25 years.

Thanks in advance!

Here in Singapore we have a system adapted from the British. I have student loans outstanding, and in my case borrowed from my parents via the government's financial institution as a proxy, as far as I am concerned that is a debt. Within the Accesstoinsight suttas that I came across, I recall there was one regarding Debtlessness, as it is a rather short sutta I thought I will just paste the entire text here instead

Anana Sutta: Debtless
Then Anathapindika the householder went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there the Blessed One said to him: "There are these four kinds of bliss that can be attained in the proper season, on the proper occasions, by a householder partaking of sensuality. Which four? The bliss of having, the bliss of [making use of] wealth, the bliss of debtlessness, the bliss of blamelessness.

"And what is the bliss of having? There is the case where the son of a good family has wealth earned through his efforts & enterprise, amassed through the strength of his arm, and piled up through the sweat of his brow, righteous wealth righteously gained. When he thinks, 'I have wealth earned through my efforts & enterprise, amassed through the strength of my arm, and piled up through the sweat of my brow, righteous wealth righteously gained,' he experiences bliss, he experiences joy. This is called the bliss of having.

"And what is the bliss of [making use of] wealth? There is the case where the son of a good family, using the wealth earned through his efforts & enterprise, amassed through the strength of his arm, and piled up through the sweat of his brow, righteous wealth righteously gained, partakes of his wealth and makes merit. When he thinks, 'Using the wealth earned through my efforts & enterprise, amassed through the strength of my arm, and piled up through the sweat of my brow, righteous wealth righteously gained, I partake of wealth and make merit,' he experiences bliss, he experiences joy. This is called the bliss of [making use of] wealth.

"And what is the bliss of debtlessness? There is the case where the son of a good family owes no debt, great or small, to anyone at all. When he thinks, 'I owe no debt, great or small, to anyone at all,' he experiences bliss, he experiences joy. This is called the bliss of debtlessness.

"And what is the bliss of blamelessness? There is the case where a disciple of the noble ones is endowed with blameless bodily kamma, blameless verbal kamma, blameless mental kamma. When he thinks, 'I am endowed with blameless bodily kamma, blameless verbal kamma, blameless mental kamma,' he experiences bliss, he experiences joy. This is called the bliss of blamelessness.

"These are the four kinds of bliss that can be attained in the proper season, on the proper occasions, by a householder partaking of sensuality."

Knowing the bliss of debtlessness,
& recollecting the bliss of having,
enjoying the bliss of wealth, the mortal
then sees clearly with discernment.
Seeing clearly — the wise one —
he knows both sides:
that these are not worth one sixteenth-sixteenth
of the bliss of blamelessness.



"Anana Sutta: Debtless" (AN 4.62), translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Access to Insight, 3 July 2010, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html . Retrieved on 25 December 2012.

Put it this way, does the debt take away the bliss from your existence? :juggling: There are student debts now, housing loans, car loans, and when your children are born there are more loans just to buy them their infant formulae; take a look at what you have perhaps, and that includes your existing wealths and assets, whether personal or shared i.e. your parents', debts are a lifetime question and I reckon that you and I are not alone here :hug:

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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby John1122 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:43 pm

Lets just consider some of the people the Buddha allowed to ordain as monks. How about this one for starters Angulimala?

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Re: Is a UK student loan considered debt

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:22 pm

John1122 wrote:Lets just consider some of the people the Buddha allowed to ordain as monks. How about this one for starters Angulimala?

And what is your point regarding the rules the Mendicants follow and the Debt issue without the Buddha about to allow or disallow an ordination?
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."


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