Experience with meditation as taught by Pa-Auk Sayadaw

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Experience with meditation as taught by Pa-Auk Sayadaw

Postby tsurezuregusa » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:42 pm

Hello everyone,

I am currently reading Shaila Catherine's 'Wisdom wide and deep' where she descripes the meditation teachings of the Ven. Pa-Auk Sayadaw.

I am to some degree familiar with the meditation teachings of the Ven. Mahasi Sayadaw, but I am new to Pa-Auk Sayadaw's methods. I am wondering if anyone has experience with the meditation instructions as laid down in Chapters 15 and 14?

Is that a common practice for experienced meditators? And is that also something Mahasi Sayadaw taught in his advanced instructions?

Kind regards,
Florian
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Re: Experience with meditation as taught by Pa-Auk Sayadaw

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:50 pm

I don't have a copy onhand but I've done some meditation in Pa Auk Sayadaw's method. Can you describe what he is talking about in those chapters?

Both sayadaws are very Burmese and heavily based in commentarial literature. They have slightly different methods (Pa Auk supports Jhana as an integral part of practice, whereas Mahasi does not) but they don't have any major disagreements.

EDIT: So I looked it up online. Are you referring to the stuff on the five aggregates and dependent origination? Because that stuff is definitely all pretty orthodox. I wouldn't worry about it!
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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Re: Experience with meditation as taught by Pa-Auk Sayadaw

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:34 pm

LonesomeYogurt wrote:EDIT: So I looked it up online. Are you referring to the stuff on the five aggregates and dependent origination? Because that stuff is definitely all pretty orthodox. I wouldn't worry about it!

The material in Chapter 14 about emptiness of the aggregates is quite standard. The instructions towards the end of Chapter 15 about seeing dependent origination by tracing the causal relationships back through time relies on techniques built up in other chapters and presumably requires very strong samadhi. That's not something I'd expect to get from Mahasi style teachers (which is my main practice). They just don't tend to emphasise that sort of thing. As LY says, it's not in any way contradictory, and, of course, is mentioned in various suttas.
"If he wants, he recollects his manifold past lives, i.e., one birth, two births, three births, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, one hundred, one thousand, one hundred thousand, many aeons of cosmic contraction, many aeons of cosmic expansion, many aeons of cosmic contraction and expansion, [recollecting], 'There I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose here.' Thus he remembers his manifold past lives in their modes and details. He can witness this for himself whenever there is an opening.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

:anjali:
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Re: Experience with meditation as taught by Pa-Auk Sayadaw

Postby hermitwin » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:47 am

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Re: Experience with meditation as taught by Pa-Auk Sayadaw

Postby tsurezuregusa » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:39 pm

Hello,

thank you for your answers so far. I was not concerned about the orthopraxis, but the approach seems to differ widely from what I know so far from the Mahasi teaching.

Yes, especially the meditating on the ultimate realities in past and future lives. Or in chapter 13:

In a similar way, now discern the cognitive processes that are occurring externally, that is, in minds other than your own [Catherine, p. 290]


I know that the Satipatthana Sutta teaches to apply your mindfulness to things internally and externally. It is just that I have never been taught this way. Still a long way to go.

Kind regards,
Florian
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Re: Experience with meditation as taught by Pa-Auk Sayadaw

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:47 pm

tsurezuregusa wrote:I know that the Satipatthana Sutta teaches to apply your mindfulness to things internally and externally. It is just that I have never been taught this way. Still a long way to go.

Kind regards,
Florian

As Mike said, the samadhi developed in the Pa Auk system is far greater than what Mahasi recommends. Many things recommended by Pa Auk are not possible without Jhana or other intense samatha practices, so you probably won't come across them in the more vipassana-oriented schools.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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Re: Experience with meditation as taught by Pa-Auk Sayadaw

Postby theY » Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:17 am

Namo Buddhassa


Samatha is very important for capitalism who want to access to in-sign by vipassanaa.

What is your reference book?

If you doubt about the recalling, you should see page 11:
http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books7/Pa_Au ... tthana.pdf

VIPASSANAA~NAA.NA AND ABHI~N~NAA

Concerning the discernment of past and future some vener able teachers have the opinion that only if one attains abhi~n~naa, especially pubbenivaasaanussati abhi~n~naa then one can discern the past and future. There are 2 ways of discerning past and futu re which are by pubbenivaasaanussati abhi~n~naa ~naa.na and vipassanaa ~naa.na. In the khandhavagga s a.myutta paali, khajjaniiya sutta and the commentary of that sutta taught...

------------------------Another-------------------------------

He stress to teach step by step same visuddhimagga and his teaching style is atthakathā style--nettipakaraṇa-book pattern.

Moreover, he choose the most likely way to enlighten nibbāna for the most the trainable fool(neyya), also that is the hardest and deepest meditation at this time, too.

If you can't enlightenin this life by his way, you may be padaparama--4th in this link.

The brief of visuddhimagga style :

1. Organize your sīla.

2. Meditate any samatha to get closer-jhanna(upacārasamādhi), or any jhana--another teachers have not amount to the same care this step.

3. Analyze each piece of your whole body into paramatthas until namarūpaparicchedayāna will arise.

You must enough stressful clearly realize--visuddhi, that "Everything are only paramatthas, haven't another, such as satta, out of paramatthas", for analyze paccaya at next step.

4. Analyze the relationship of that analyzed body by paccaya--cause, and paccayuppanna--effect, until paccayapariggahayāna will arise.
You must enough clearly realize, that "Everything every paramattha must arise by arisement of the cause. If every causes vanished, every effects just vanished, too". You should do this step until tilakkhana seeing will happen in your mind, because it need to support unlimited tilakkhana seeing at next step.

5. Expand your tilakkhana seeing to everything at everytime, everywhere, every statement, every quality.

6. Stress to realize to arising and vanishing to accumulate disenchantment.

You should enlighten nibbāna at the end of this process.

Everybody who meditation in his course will live with jaṅkama, strenuous sitting, or read tipitaka to solve their kammaṭṭhāna doubt, such as another student in another school do.

However, tipitaka professional can discover many difference between them.

http://tipitakanews.org/en/node/30
Lesson Relationship of Abhidhammatthasaṅgaha (10/31/2012)
http://tipitakanews.org/en/node/61
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Re: Experience with meditation as taught by Pa-Auk Sayadaw

Postby Goob » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:28 am

Samatha is very important for capitalism...


I never thought I'd see this sentence in my lifetime :tongue:
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