The Cart Simile

[Cittasanto]

Hi All,
Does anyone remember where in the canon the cart is used in an example to illustrate the body as an assembly of parts?
similar to Bodhidharma in China, or sister Vajira here or am I simply remembering the Sister Vajira sutta?

[Ben]

Greetings Cittasanto,

Are you sure its not the chariot?
kind regards,

Ben

[Cittasanto]

Hi Ben,
chariot is probably used
but the only example I have found is the Bhikkhuni Vajira Sutta.

Just as when parts are put together, it can be called a chariot;
So when the Sensorial aggregates come together, conventionally there is a living being.

I couldn't find anything in the index on A2I but I am connected with my phone at the moment and I am not very good with it for searching at the moment

[Ben]

Hi Cittasanto,
I think it could be the same one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajira
kind regards,

Ben

[tsurezuregusa]

Hi Cittasanto,

the Ven. Nagasena uses the chariot as a metaphor in the first chapter of the Milindapanha to explain the anatman-doctrine to the Greek king Menandros.

Kind regards,
Florian

[Cittasanto]

Hi Cittasanto,
I think it could be the same one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajira
kind regards,

Ben

Hi Ben,
Yeah it is the same, I was sure the Buddha used this simile once, but obviously mistaken.

[daverupa]

Interesting implications, I should think.

[rowyourboat]

"Now I am frail, Ananda, old, aged, far gone in years. This is my eightieth year, and my life is spent. Even as an old cart, Ananda, is held together with much difficulty, so the body of the Tathagata is kept going only with supports.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .vaji.html



Even royal chariots
well-embellished
get run down,
and so does the body
succumb to old age.
But the Dhamma of the good
doesn't succumb to old age:
the good let the civilized know.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... ml#dhp-151

I know its not the same thing but I wondered if this was what you were referring to.

With metta

M

[daverupa]

Thank you in any event; it's nice to have the cart 'simile' in this context, as opposed to the rather cognitive "sum of parts" version.

[Cittasanto]

Hi tsurezuregusa,
that is the simile I was thinking of (or similar) but by the Buddha.
thanks for pointing in the direction.

Milinda: “I did not come, Sir, on foot, but on a chariot.”

Nagasena: “If you have come on a chariot, then please explain to me what a chariot is. Is the pole the chariot?”

Milinda: “No, reverend Sir!”

Nagasena: “Is then the axle the chariot?”

Milinda: “No, reverend Sir!”

Nagasena: “Is it then the wheels, or the framework, or the flag-staff, or the yoke, or the reins, or the goadstick?”

Milinda: “No, reverend Sir!”

Nagasena: “Then is it the combination of pole, axle, wheels, framework, flag-staff, yoke, reins, and goad?”

Milinda: “No, reverend Sir!”

Nagasena: “Then is this ‘chariot’ outside the combination of pole, axle, wheels, framework, flag-staff, yoke, reins, and goad?”

Milinda: “No, reverend Sir!”

Nagasena: “Then, ask as I may, I can discover no chariot at all. Just a mere sound is this ‘chariot’. But what is the real chariot? Your Majesty has told a lie, has spoken a falsehood! There really is no chariot! Your Majesty is the greatest king in the whole of India. Of whom then are you afraid, that you do not speak the truth?”
(To Assembly) “Now listen, you 500 Greeks, and 80,000 monks, this king Milinda tells me he has come in a chariot. But when asked to explain to me what a chariot is, he cannot establish its existence. How can one possibly approve of that?”
The five hundred Greeks thereupon applauded the Venerable Nagasena and said to King Milinda: “Now let your Majesty get out of this if you can!”

[theY]

Visuddhimagga Diṭṭhivisuddhiniddesa claim to that sutta, and have another about 12 similes in that niddesa.

http://books.google.co.th/books?id=B_UW ... &q&f=false