Moderator: mikenz66
BB: This is Sona Kolivisa, declared by the Buddha foremost among those who arouse energy [AN 1:205, which just says "foremost in..." ].
His verses are at Th 632-44. Th 638-39 refer to the simile of the lute; Th 640-44 are identical with the verses at the end of this sutta. [Unfortunately the verses are not on Access to Insight --- I'll try to locate them in the PTS volume on the weekend, unless someone would like to transcribe them first.]
The story appears as an expanded version in the Vinaya [Vin I 179-85], where it leads tot eh Buddha's granting permission to the monks to wear sandals.
In the same way, Sona, over-aroused persistence leads to restlessness, overly slack persistence leads to laziness. Thus you should determine the right pitch for your persistence, attune[2]the pitch of the [five] faculties [to that], and there pick up your theme
daverupa wrote:In keeping with the music analogy, the faculties are each employed with a certain pitch, and the point is to harmonize them in order to get a boost in resonance.
The tuning fork is right view around which runs the whole of the Path; direct discernment of wholesome and unwholesome, or continual reflection before/during/after on whether the action afflicted/s anyone or not. The faculties are harmonized in just such a way, and it is all meant to facilitate jhana, it seems to me.
Skilled vina players are not made in a day.
Bhikkhus, just as the dawn is the forerunner and first indication of the rising of the sun, so is right view the forerunner and first indication of wholesome states.
When, friends, a noble disciple understands the unwholesome, the root of the unwholesome, the wholesome, and the root of the wholesome, in that way he is one of right view, whose view is straight, who has perfect confidence in the Dhamma, and has arrived at this true Dhamma.
There is the case where a monk keeps his persistence aroused for abandoning unskillful mental qualities and taking on skillful mental qualities. He is steadfast, solid in his effort, not shirking his duties with regard to skillful mental qualities. 'This Dhamma is for one whose persistence is aroused, not for one who is lazy.' Thus was it said.
daverupa wrote:AN 10.121 hasBhikkhus, just as the dawn is the forerunner and first indication of the rising of the sun, so is right view the forerunner and first indication of wholesome states.
and we also readWhen, friends, a noble disciple understands the unwholesome, the root of the unwholesome, the wholesome, and the root of the wholesome, in that way he is one of right view, whose view is straight, who has perfect confidence in the Dhamma, and has arrived at this true Dhamma.
in MN 9. This informs Right Effort, which is precisely generating & upholding wholesome states, while eliminating and restraining unwholesome states. Right View is precisely that which allows one to assess wholesomeness/unwholesomeness without error - this is what allows stream-entrants to be left alone to practice, ardent and in solitude, with that tuning fork.
Indeed, the hindrance of doubt is precisely doubt over whether certain states are wholesome or unwholesome. This is very much the crux of the issue here, so I had thought.
Anciently, tuning an instrument wasn't tuning it to an objective scale of notes (A = 440 Hz and so forth) but to it's own range of notes, one which was pleasing to the ear and, more importantly, suitable for playing. It really is something of an art, which is why "pick up your theme" is as precise as it gets in this Sutta.
AN 8.30:There is the case where a monk keeps his persistence aroused for abandoning unskillful mental qualities and taking on skillful mental qualities. He is steadfast, solid in his effort, not shirking his duties with regard to skillful mental qualities. 'This Dhamma is for one whose persistence is aroused, not for one who is lazy.' Thus was it said.
Sam Vara wrote:Many thanks Mike. I have three preliminary thoughts about this one, which, despite being familiar with the vina analogy, I had not previously readIn the same way, Sona, over-aroused persistence leads to restlessness, overly slack persistence leads to laziness. Thus you should determine the right pitch for your persistence, attune[2]the pitch of the [five] faculties [to that], and there pick up your theme
Interesting that the persistence is talked about here not as an isolated faculty, but as one of the five faculties (Indriya). So we need to get the right amount of viriya, and then address the other faculties. Do we then address or deploy the faculties to the correct pitch (i.e. we need the right amount of each of them - not too much, not too little)? Can we have too much mindfulness, which the Buddha described as "all-helpfull"? Or does it mean that only when the right amount of persistence is engaged will we be in the correct frame of mind to know how to relate to the faculties?
Sam Vara wrote:And then there is the bit about "picking up the theme". This is obviously a continuation of the musical analogy, but are we to assume that the theme is the walking meditation that Sona had been engaging in? Overall the structure seems to be getting the balance of energy right, letting that determine the faculties, and then picking up the "theme" of meditation.
Mp: [Commentary] Resolve on evenness of energy: Resolve on serenity combined with energy. The meaning is "Link energy with serenity".
Achieve evenness of the spiritual faculties: Keep to evenness, a balance of the spiritual faculties of faith, etc. When faith is linked with wisdom and wisdom with faith; when energy is linked with concentration and concentration with energy, then the balance of the faculties is maintained. but mindfulness is useful everywhere, so it should always be strong.
Seize the object there: When such balance exists the object can arise clearly, like the reflection of one's face in a mirror; and you should take up this object --- bring forth the object of serenity, of insight, of the path, and of the fruit. Thus the Buddha explained the meditation subject to him, leading up to arahantship.
BB: Chinese parallels to this passage offer quite different readings of the Buddha's injunction [I've omitted the detailed references]:* Therefore you should distinguish this time [could samatam have mutated into samayam?], examine this mark, and do not be heedless.
[There is, to me, a surprising variation there. BB points out that the last is closest to the Pali: ]
* Therefore you should practice by taking up [the object] in a balanced way; do not cling, do not be heedless, and do no grasp marks.
* If you can stay in the middle, this is the superior practice.
* You should balance your energy, balance the faculties.Therefore, Sona, resolve on a balance of energy, achieve evenness of the spiritual faculties, and take up the object there.

SN 55.24 wrote:Take the case of another man. He is not even endowed with unwavering devotion to the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha. He is not joyous and swift in wisdom and has not gained release. But he has just these things: the faculty of faith, of energy, of mindfulness, of concentration, of wisdom. Yet if he has merely faith, merely affection for the Tathaagata, that man, too, does not go to... states of woe.
"Why, Mahaanaama, if these great sal trees could distinguish what is well spoken from what is ill spoken, I would proclaim these great sal trees to be Stream-Winners...
mikenz66 wrote:Then the Blessed One, as soon as he perceived with his awareness the train of thought in Ven. Sona's awareness — as a strong man might stretch out his bent arm or bend his outstretched arm — disappeared from Vulture Peak Mountain, appeared in the Cool Wood right in front of Ven. Sona, and sat down on a prepared seat.
mikenz66 wrote:
Ven. Sona, after bowing down to the Blessed One, sat to one side. As he was sitting there, the Blessed One said to him, "Just now, as you were meditating in seclusion, didn't this train of thought appear to your awareness: 'Of the Blessed One's disciples who have aroused their persistence, I am one, but my mind is not released from the fermentations... What if I were to disavow the training, return to the lower life, enjoy wealth, & make merit?'"
mikenz66 wrote:"In the same way, Sona, over-aroused persistence leads to restlessness, overly slack persistence leads to laziness. Thus you should determine the right pitch for your persistence, attune[2]the pitch of the [five] faculties [to that], and there pick up your theme."
mikenz66 wrote:So after that, Ven. Sona determined the right pitch for his persistence...
mikenz66 wrote:"When a monk is an arahant ... he is dedicated to six things: renunciation, seclusion, non-afflictiveness, the ending of craving, the ending of clinging/sustenance, & non-deludedness.
mikenz66 wrote:The monk whose fermentations are ended, having fulfilled [the holy life], does not see in himself anything further to do, or anything further to add to what he has done. It is because of the ending of passion, because of his being free of passion, that he is dedicated to renunciation. It is because of the ending of aversion, because of his being free of aversion, that he is dedicated to renunciation. It is because of the ending of delusion, because of his being free of delusion, that he is dedicated to renunciation.
Sam Vara wrote:Interesting that the persistence is talked about here not as an isolated faculty, but as one of the five faculties.
Sam Vara wrote: Can we have too much mindfulness, which the Buddha described as "all-helpfull"?
Sam Vara wrote:How much is too much? How much is not enough? A vina player can match the pitch of his intrument to a known note, such as a tuning fork. But there is no such objective yardstick for the persisting meditator. Perhaps the idea is leaving it to the individual practitioner to experiment and find out whether a tune can actually be played on the instrument - or whether one can actually meditate in a way that one judges to be beneficial.
Mal wrote:There are qualities of jhana - calm, joy, ecstasy, equanimity, spacuiousness, nimittas... Wouldn't those be as close to "objective" yardsticks as you can get? Of course, jhana is a state only available to advanced meditators, but these qualities are felt before jhana. Shouldn''t we doing whatever encourages the beginnings of these qualities?
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