enjoying nature

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

enjoying nature

Postby befriend » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:05 pm

how do we enjoy the sights of nature without liking coming up?
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby perkele » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:33 pm

How do we eat soup without tasting it?
Those who are ashamed of what they should be ashamed of, and are not ashamed of what they should not be ashamed of -- upholding true views, they do not go to states of woe.
(suggested by SamBodhi)
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby santa100 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:05 pm

befriend wrote:
how do we enjoy the sights of nature without liking coming up?


By noticing that the sights of nature change! spring to summer, summer to fall, fall to winter, etc.. All is anicca, dukkha, and anatta. Just like Ajahn Brahm put it: "Joy At Last To Know There Is No Happiness In The World"..
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby daverupa » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:36 pm

befriend wrote:how do we enjoy the sights of nature without liking coming up?


All beings subsist on nutriment, which is a nasty business.

Image

Nature is beautiful, isn't it?

:stirthepot:

:anjali:
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby cooran » Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:35 pm

Hello befriend, all,

This extract might be of interest:

The Buddhist Attitude Towards Nature by Lily de Silva
[……………………………………….]


Nature as Beautiful

The Buddha and his disciples regarded natural beauty as a source of great joy and aesthetic satisfaction. The saints who purged themselves of sensuous worldly pleasures responded to natural beauty with a detached sense of appreciation. The average poet looks at nature and derives inspiration mostly by the sentiments it evokes in his own heart; he becomes emotionally involved with nature. For instance, he may compare the sun's rays passing over the mountain tops to the blush on a sensitive face, he may see a tear in a dew drop, the lips of his beloved in a rose petal, etc. But the appreciation of the saint is quite different. He appreciates nature's beauty for its own sake and derives joy unsullied by sensuous associations and self-projected ideas. The simple spontaneous appreciation of nature's exquisite beauty is expressed by the Elder Mahakassapa in the following words:[60]
Those upland glades delightful to the soul,
Where the Kaveri spreads its wildering wreaths,
Where sound the trumpet-calls of elephants:
Those are the hills where my soul delights.

Those rocky heights with hue of dark blue clouds
Where lies embossed many a shining lake
Of crystal-clear, cool waters, and whose slopes
The 'herds of Indra' cover and bedeck:
Those are the hills wherein my soul delights.

Fair uplands rain-refreshed, and resonant
With crested creatures' cries antiphonal,
Lone heights where silent Rishis oft resort:
Those are the hills wherein my soul delights.
Again the poem of Kaludayi, inviting the Buddha to visit Kapilavatthu, contains a beautiful description of spring:[61]
Now crimson glow the trees, dear Lord, and cast
Their ancient foliage in quest of fruit,
Like crests of flame they shine irradiant
And rich in hope, great Hero, is the hour.

Verdure and blossom-time in every tree
Wherever we look delightful to the eye,
And every quarter breathing fragrant airs,
While petals falling, yearning comes fruit:
It is time, O Hero, that we set out hence.
The long poem of Talaputa is a fascinating soliloquy.[62] His religious aspirations are beautifully blended with a profound knowledge of the teachings of the Buddha against the background of a sylvan resort. Many more poems could be cited for saintly appreciation of nature, but it is not necessary to burden the essay with any more quotations. Suffice it to know that the saints, too, were sensitive to the beauties and harmony of nature and that their appreciation is colored by spontaneity, simplicity, and a non-sensuous spirituality.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... itude.html

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:09 pm

daverupa wrote:
Nature is beautiful, isn't it?
It can be.


Image
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:18 pm

befriend wrote:how do we enjoy the sights of nature without liking coming up?
Who says you should not like something?

Image

Image
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby befriend » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:19 pm

liking and disliking are defilements.
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:33 pm

befriend wrote:liking and disliking are defilements.
Do you like that statement?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:08 am

befriend wrote:liking and disliking are defilements.
Do you like your mother? Do you like yourself?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:20 am

tiltbillings wrote:Who says you should not like something?

The Buddha.

He who, having cast off likes and dislikes, has become tranquil, is rid of the substrata of existence and like a hero has conquered all the worlds — him do I call a holy man.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:14 am

LonesomeYogurt wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Who says you should not like something?

The Buddha.

He who, having cast off likes and dislikes, has become tranquil, is rid of the substrata of existence and like a hero has conquered all the worlds — him do I call a holy man.
[Just a note: When you quote a text do cite from whence it came.] So, we cannot like our mothers, our kids, our beliefs . . . .

    "Then there is the case where I see a wilderness monk who receives robes, alms food, shelter, & medicinal requisites for curing the sick. Fending off those gains, offerings, & fame, he doesn't neglect seclusion, doesn't neglect isolated forest & wilderness dwellings. And so I am pleased with that monk's wilderness-dwelling.

    "But when I am traveling along a road and see no one in front or behind me, at that time I have my ease, even when urinating & defecating."
    -- A iv 340
It seems that the Buddha liked to not have not do these things with an audience, and he certainly was pleased with certain things.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:49 am

tiltbillings wrote:[Just a note: When you quote a text do cite from whence it came.]

My apologies - Dhammapada 26:36.


So, we cannot like our mothers, our kids, our beliefs . . . .

There's a difference between liking, which is based in attachment, and approving of, enjoying, or otherwise appreciating. I think it's obvious that the OP is discussing how to avoid the "liking" that comes from delighting in the sensual pleasure of nature's beauty, which is definitely a form of attachment.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:51 am

LonesomeYogurt wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:[Just a note: When you quote a text do cite from whence it came.]

My apologies - Dhammapada 26:36.


So, we cannot like our mothers, our kids, our beliefs . . . .

There's a difference between liking, which is based in attachment, and approving of, enjoying, or otherwise appreciating. I think it's obvious that the OP is discussing how to avoid the "liking" that comes from delighting in the sensual pleasure of nature's beauty, which is definitely a form of attachment.
It is an interesting balancing act. Can we get to a point where we can delight in something without becoming attached to it? And until then?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby Cassandra » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:52 am

befriend wrote:liking and disliking are defilements.

Attachment is defilement. Enjoying beauty is not necessarily attachment. The Buddha is reported to have said certain cities are beautiful in the Canon.
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby Cassandra » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:15 am

LonesomeYogurt wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Who says you should not like something?

The Buddha.

He who, having cast off likes and dislikes, has become tranquil, is rid of the substrata of existence and like a hero has conquered all the worlds — him do I call a holy man.


It's the Dhammapada. Another translation says "having given up pleasure and discontent".
The pali ratim means "attachment to the 5 sense pleasures" rather than likes/dislikes.

Hitva ratim ca aratim ca

who has given up taking delight (in sensual pleasures) and not taking delight (in solitude)
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby JeffR » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:36 am

befriend wrote:how do we enjoy the sights of nature without liking coming up?

Sounds like you're being troubled with aversion to "liking". Just be mindful of the Sukka and how it arises.
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:15 am

Hi, everyone,
This discussion is beginning to look like one that needs real care with words and their translations: liking/disliking vs attachment/aversion/equanimity vs appreciation/enjoyment; etc.
I like (agree with :tongue: ) what Cooran posted above, especially the bits I have highlighted here:
cooran wrote:The Buddhist Attitude Towards Nature by Lily de Silva

Nature as Beautiful

The Buddha and his disciples regarded natural beauty as a source of great joy and aesthetic satisfaction. The saints who purged themselves of sensuous worldly pleasures responded to natural beauty with a detached sense of appreciation. The average poet looks at nature and derives inspiration mostly by the sentiments it evokes in his own heart; he becomes emotionally involved with nature.
For instance, he may compare the sun's rays passing over the mountain tops to the blush on a sensitive face, he may see a tear in a dew drop, the lips of his beloved in a rose petal, etc. But the appreciation of the saint is quite different. He appreciates nature's beauty for its own sake and derives joy unsullied by sensuous associations and self-projected ideas. The simple spontaneous appreciation of nature's exquisite beauty is expressed by the Elder Mahakassapa...

Again the poem of Kaludayi, inviting the Buddha to visit Kapilavatthu, contains a beautiful description of spring:[61]
Now crimson glow the trees, dear Lord, and cast
Their ancient foliage in quest of fruit,
Like crests of flame they shine irradiant
And rich in hope, great Hero, is the hour.
...
The long poem of Talaputa is a fascinating soliloquy.[62] His religious aspirations are beautifully blended with a profound knowledge of the teachings of the Buddha against the background of a sylvan resort. Many more poems could be cited for saintly appreciation of nature, but it is not necessary to burden the essay with any more quotations. Suffice it to know that the saints, too, were sensitive to the beauties and harmony of nature and that their appreciation is colored by spontaneity, simplicity, and a non-sensuous spirituality.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... itude.html

I will have to look up 'The long poem of Talaputa' - it sounds like my kind of thing.

In my understanding, attachment or clinging, not enjoyment per se, is the problem. If we can enjoy something but happily let it go when it ceases or when we move on, it won't entail suffering. Rather, it will make us happier people and therefore more likely to be nice to ourselves and to others.
As Tilt said, it's a balancing act.

:namaste:
Kim
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby rowyourboat » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:39 am

By seeing the drawbacks of pleasant sensation (sukha vedana) we eventually let go of the mind's tendency to give rise to craving for pleasant sensation. Craving is the cause of suffering and ignorance about the true nature (no pun intended) of pleasant sensations give rise to craving- so we must understand and explore this phenomena and eventually abandon (pahana) it. Delight (nandi) is another defilement to be abandoned. However the arahanths cannot abandon pleasant sensation as it is part of the five aggregates which stay with them until death. So they continue to experience pleasant sensations. They are said to go into jhana for 'pleasant abiding' or do right contemplation (yonisomanasikara) for the same reasons. When there is no fear of craving arising again they can enjoy this as much as they want. The Buddha speaking of monks says that for non-returners and arahanths there is no danger in it for them to eat good tasting food, referring to them having removed all sensual craving.

With metta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
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Re: enjoying nature

Postby xtracorrupt » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:07 pm

do not judge nature, appreciate it
theres is no need for needing
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