Drugs and re-enlightenment?

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Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby xtracorrupt » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:01 pm

after obtaining at least one stage of enlightenment i have tried multiple times the drug cannabis. It induces at least some form of anxiety and my mind has found it unavoidable, during influence of the drug i feel this abnormal anxiety and perhaps( no certainty/insight because recollection is unable of being perfect) i have gone through stages of enlightenment again? does anybody have experience with drugs while having some form of attainment. or any form of losing insight?44

i have much confidence in this conclusion because before enlightenment the drug was more enjoyable and pleasing but now it brings undesirable feelings.

The re-enlightenement could probably be just the spotting of suffering links and related

Cannabis is similar but also very different then most other drugs, while like other drugs it shuts things down functions in ur body it also opens them up, Canniboids are natural and we have Cannabis receptors.

I feel there might be some bias opinions because its drug use but try and keep an opened mind
Last edited by xtracorrupt on Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby m0rl0ck » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:30 pm

You should see a teacher of the method you practice and let them tell you how enlightened you are rather than judging it for yourself, if thats whats going on.
If you are using pot and you feel its affecting your mental stability, why are you doing that?
There is no comfort without pain; thus
we define salvation through suffering.
-- Cato
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby xtracorrupt » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:18 pm

im not judging my enlightenment because i have no need for so, it was in form of realization/insight however i can't officially define it. I use the drug because it has because incorporated in my lifestyle and refusing it would be a matter of judgement therefore entitling that i require not to do it. i find it difficult to understand how the buddha would strictly restrict drugs usage because of loss of mindfulness, when much information can be gained from the matter.

i have learned much from switching to an suffering/anxiety free realm into a one again stress present realm.

i have learned that i became ignorant and doubtful because off difficulty recollecting memories induced by the drug

and that concentration is elevated when one is focused on a natural interest rather then a attachment imposed interest
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby m0rl0ck » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:31 pm

If pot is making you suffer and you are using it anyway, how enlightened is that?

What do you mean that refusing it would be a matter of judgement? That others would feel you were judging them if you didnt use it with them?
There is no comfort without pain; thus
we define salvation through suffering.
-- Cato
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby xtracorrupt » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:16 pm

if cannabis is making me suffer i will probably lose interest in it naturally anyhow

and by saying refusing would be a form of judgement because i would be judging that i shouldn't partake in this activity because i am attached to one of the percepts(example)

if i truly have no attachment, then i have no need for anything therefore i have no need to abstain from cannabis, I'm not even saying i will use it again, but I'm saying if i become interest i have no reason to deny myself access
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby m0rl0ck » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:43 pm

xtracorrupt wrote:if cannabis is making me suffer i will probably lose interest in it naturally anyhow

and by saying refusing would be a form of judgement because i would be judging that i shouldn't partake in this activity because i am attached to one of the percepts(example)



The precept you are referring to is about keeping a clear mind so that you have some chance that your practice of buddhism will bear fruit, not so that you can prove that you can cut corners and beat the system.
Lose the drugs. You will end up happier for it and may actually end up finding something real.
There is no comfort without pain; thus
we define salvation through suffering.
-- Cato
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby Mawkish1983 » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:37 pm

I suspect we are discussing very different interpretations of the words 'enlightenment' and 'attainment'.

Edit:

if [anything] is making me suffer i
will probably lose interest in it
naturally anyhow
Sadly, this isn't how samsara works.
Last edited by Mawkish1983 on Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:38 pm

In case you aren't trolling, I'll give you advice you should listen to. You are clearly deluded, thinking that you're enlightened. Enlightened people don't feel suffering. You are experiencing suffering because of cannabis. You are on the way to a full blown psychosis, and, if you inform yourself, you'll see that cannabis is to blame. You're not enlightened. Get off cannabis imediatly. You only get tired of cannabis when it hurt you really, really, really bad. I say because I know from experience.

So, before that, get away from cannabis and consult with a psychiatrist as soon as possible.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby Alobha » Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:41 pm

Modus.Ponens wrote:In case you aren't trolling, I'll give you advice you should listen to. You are clearly deluded, thinking that you're enlightened. Enlightened people don't feel suffering. You are experiencing suffering because of cannabis. You are on the way to a full blown psychosis, and, if you inform yourself, you'll see that cannabis is to blame. You're not enlightened. Get off cannabis imediatly. You only get tired of cannabis when it hurt you really, really, really bad. I say because I know from experience.

So, before that, get away from cannabis and consult with a psychiatrist as soon as possible.


:goodpost:

xtracorrupt wrote:and by saying refusing would be a form of judgement because i would be judging that i shouldn't partake in this activity because i am attached to one of the percepts(example)

Of course people hooked to drugs will probably argue the reality away, that there is no problem with the drugs, that it would be wrong not taking them and finding all sorts of crude reasons for sticking with their addiction. This isn't attainment, it's attachment.
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby danieLion » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:51 pm

Your confusion about cannabis indicates you're not "elightened" (or getting re-"enlightened") by any Buddhist sense of the word, and unless your using the cannabis for a legitemate medical problem (or occasionally and moderately for recreation), it will only hinder progress on the path.

Also, remember, contrary to legend, it can be addictive and is intoxicating to most.
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby Ben » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:29 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:In case you aren't trolling, I'll give you advice you should listen to. You are clearly deluded, thinking that you're enlightened. Enlightened people don't feel suffering. You are experiencing suffering because of cannabis. You are on the way to a full blown psychosis, and, if you inform yourself, you'll see that cannabis is to blame. You're not enlightened. Get off cannabis imediatly. You only get tired of cannabis when it hurt you really, really, really bad. I say because I know from experience.

So, before that, get away from cannabis and consult with a psychiatrist as soon as possible.


I agree entirely.
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby Viscid » Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:39 am

i have tried multiple times the drug cannabis. It induces at least some form of anxiety and my mind has found it unavoidable, during influence of the drug i feel this abnormal anxiety


Anxiety when smoking pot is actually very common. Marijuana affects different people in different ways, and if it gives you a lot of anxiety then maybe the drug isn't for you. Otherwise if you continue to smoke it, you could develop an anxious and paranoid personality.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby Dan74 » Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:59 am

xtracorrupt wrote:if cannabis is making me suffer i will probably lose interest in it naturally anyhow

and by saying refusing would be a form of judgement because i would be judging that i shouldn't partake in this activity because i am attached to one of the percepts(example)

if i truly have no attachment, then i have no need for anything therefore i have no need to abstain from cannabis, I'm not even saying i will use it again, but I'm saying if i become interest i have no reason to deny myself access


This notion of not making a preference because that would be showing that one is attached is unfortunately a delusion I am familiar with. It's a kind of false equanimity, whereby you don't fully care what happens, you don't fully take responsibility and you consider yourself enlightened because you are not as caught up in it all as the people around you. It is an easy way out of getting to grips with life. In Zen, it is known as a kind of an "emptiness sickness".
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby m0rl0ck » Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:51 am

And just a note of encouragement, if the experience you have had has given you enough clarity to realize that you dont like being chemically impaired, thats a good thing. Good luck on your journey and keep up the good work :)
There is no comfort without pain; thus
we define salvation through suffering.
-- Cato
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby xtracorrupt » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:01 am

theres appears to be much misinterpretation, i would have responded earlier but i was unable to navigate through the forum

i had been using cannabis for severals years beforehand and i had always found it somewhat enjoyable, i am not pretty sure i was not addicted as i had always been taking long breaks commonly and the drug is not physically addictive unlike other substances like nicotine and alcohol. What i was trying to say it the drugs experience was completely different after first stage enlightenment, the experience seemed awful and i became attached to certain things. The re-enlightenment could have been a misconception i do not have full memory of the events because the drug effects your memory, i was just putting it out their as a possibility and was wondering for similar experiences.

i have already stopped taking drugs completely because it is a selfish and it makes me lose my mindfullness
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby xtracorrupt » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:15 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:In case you aren't trolling, I'll give you advice you should listen to. You are clearly deluded, thinking that you're enlightened. Enlightened people don't feel suffering. You are experiencing suffering because of cannabis. You are on the way to a full blown psychosis, and, if you inform yourself, you'll see that cannabis is to blame. You're not enlightened. Get off cannabis imediatly. You only get tired of cannabis when it hurt you really, really, really bad. I say because I know from experience.

So, before that, get away from cannabis and consult with a psychiatrist as soon as possible.


it appears as if your overreacting to the situation and have made all these assumptions which are unable to be proven

also im not trolling lol
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby Caraka » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:56 am

the drugs experience was completely different after first stage enlightenmen..


I don't know what your first stage of enlightment is, can you go more in detail here?
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby xtracorrupt » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:25 pm

Caraka wrote:
the drugs experience was completely different after first stage enlightenmen..


I don't know what your first stage of enlightment is, can you go more in detail here?


loss of

1. identity view
2. doubt
3. ritual attachment

realization that i have no need to form on opinions on things unless i have to obtain something from it, but i need obtain nothing, theres no reason to filter information

also i learned that nothing can be defined because there is nobody to actually define it
Last edited by xtracorrupt on Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby Slava » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:07 pm

It sounds like you have tasted some fruit of your practice. These pleasures are more enjoyable that the mundane pleasures (ie euphoria that comes from using cannabis). As a result, the mundane pleasures are starting to lose their appeal to you. Good job!
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby Caraka » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:37 am

Insight, whatever discrimination we put into it, is not enlightenment. For if it is, then what to call the enlightenment of Buddha or an Arhat?

I must also ask you if you think real insight, is like learning to walk, swim or riding a bicycle or not? I.e. you can ignore, but you do not forget when first learned.
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