8 causes of earthquake

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8 causes of earthquake

Postby barcsimalsi » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:07 pm

It is from maha-parinibbana sutta :
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .vaji.html

Eight Causes of Earthquakes

12. And the Venerable Ananda approached the Blessed One, and respectfully greeting him, sat down at one side. Then he spoke to the Blessed One, saying: "Marvellous it is indeed, and most wonderful! The earth shakes mightily, tremendously! Dreadful and astonishing it is how the thunders roll across the heavens! What could be the reason, what the cause, that so mighty an earthquake should arise?"

13. Then the Blessed One said: "There are eight reasons, Ananda, eight causes for a mighty earthquake to arise. What are those eight?

14. "This great earth, Ananda, is established upon liquid, the liquid upon the atmosphere, and the atmosphere upon space. And when, Ananda, mighty atmospheric disturbances take place, the liquid is agitated. And with the agitation of the liquid, tremors of the earth arise. This is the first reason, the first cause for the arising of mighty earthquakes.
15. "Again, Ananda, when an ascetic or holy man of great power, one who has gained mastery of his mind, or a deity who is mighty and potent, develops intense concentration on the delimited aspect of the earth element, and to a boundless degree on the liquid element, he, too, causes the earth to tremble, quiver, and shake. This is the second reason, the second cause for the arising of mighty earthquakes.

16-21. "Again, Ananda, when the Bodhisatta departs from the Tusita realm and descends into his mother's womb, mindfully and clearly comprehending; and when the Bodhisatta comes out from his mother's womb, mindfully and clearly comprehending; and when the Tathagata becomes fully enlightened in unsurpassed, supreme Enlightenment; when the Tathagata sets rolling the excellent Wheel of the Dhamma; when the Tathagata renounces his will to live on; and when the Tathagata comes to pass away into the state of Nibbana in which no element of clinging remains — then, too, Ananda, this great earth trembles, quivers, and shakes.

"These, Ananda, are the eight reasons, the eight causes for a great earthquake to arise. [27]

Is there any hidden meaning to this part of sutta?
What about the tectonics plate reasoning?
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Re: 8 causes of earthquake

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:12 pm

The first bit, with the agitation of liquid leading to the disturbance of the Earth, is probably just a pre-scientific understanding of tectonic plate movement and other naturally-caused tremors.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
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Re: 8 causes of earthquake

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:26 pm

The terms earth, water, fire, and air, refer to the four elements — solidity, fluidity, temperature, and motion.

The air element is not just wind, but any kind of elemental pressure or motion. (Gastric wind, whether it comes up or goes down, is also the air element). The water element is not just water, but also molten rock or molten iron — even ice contains the fluid element, which is why glaciers flow.

Earthquakes occur due to the movement of magma (which is water element), forced up by pressure (air element). Cohesion is a quality of water too, when cohesion is weak faults start to slide.
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Re: 8 causes of earthquake

Postby bodom » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:47 pm

Every once in a while this question will come up about the accuracy of this statement by the Buddha, but it's really quite simple: The Buddha was an expert on suffering and the way of ending suffering. He was not a geologist. He was merely expressing the commonly held scientific beliefs about the cause of earthquakes 2600 years ago. If you want to know how to be free of all stress and suffering then the Buddha and his Dhamma are where you need to turn. If you want to know about the cause of earthquakes then ask a geologist or an expert in that field.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: 8 causes of earthquake

Postby daverupa » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:14 pm

My understanding of these sorts of things in the Nikayas is had by understanding the effect this sort of thing had on those who listened to it when it was originally composed.

Basically, I see it as a particular sort of religious text; it can have an allegorical or otherwise symbolic meaning, & otherwise potentially give rise (esp. in its original contexts) to gladdening the mind in some rapturous way. A literal reading would actually be a misunderstanding, sort of like treating a television sitcom like a reality show.

The scientific understanding of these phenomena is something very modern; the original composers and consumers of these sorts of texts were not at all concerned with scientific accuracy, as it wasn't even on their thought horizon.

These descriptions aren't making physical or metaphysical claims, they are housing their religious texts in a certain narrative environment for various community-oriented reasons.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: 8 causes of earthquake

Postby DAWN » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:10 pm

It's funny because my mother say that 2 weeks after my birth in the town where i was burn ( in Bulgaria) there is un earth quake that arise.. :thinking:
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Re: 8 causes of earthquake

Postby barcsimalsi » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:27 pm

Actually, i was also worrying about each time a Buddha was born or died, people got killed in earthquakes.
Thanks for all the reply and i am going to settle with this one.
daverupa wrote:These descriptions aren't making physical or metaphysical claims, they are housing their religious texts in a certain narrative environment for various community-oriented reasons.
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Re: 8 causes of earthquake

Postby Buckwheat » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:31 pm

For engineers, another word for pressure is "stress". The crust is agitated and relieves the stress by quaking. The other seven reasons are just illustrating the ground-shaking importance of enlightenment. Hyperbole? Maybe, but it makes a stirring point.
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Re: 8 causes of earthquake

Postby whynotme » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:07 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:The terms earth, water, fire, and air, refer to the four elements — solidity, fluidity, temperature, and motion.

The air element is not just wind, but any kind of elemental pressure or motion. (Gastric wind, whether it comes up or goes down, is also the air element). The water element is not just water, but also molten rock or molten iron — even ice contains the fluid element, which is why glaciers flow.

Earthquakes occur due to the movement of magma (which is water element), forced up by pressure (air element). Cohesion is a quality of water too, when cohesion is weak faults start to slide.

I also see the four elements similar to four normal states of the matter, solid, liquid, gas, and plasma. Maybe, just maybe they see them with divine eye and use those words to describe them for people 2500 years ago to understand

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Re: 8 causes of earthquake

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:35 am

whynotme wrote:I also see the four elements similar to four normal states of the matter, solid, liquid, gas, and plasma. Maybe, just maybe they see them with divine eye and use those words to describe them for people 2500 years ago to understand

I think that interpreting them that way would be to miss the point that the fire and air elements/properties have to do with heat, energy, and motion, which were considered to be properties of matter, not something separate.
http://what-buddha-said.net/library/Bud ... dh%C4%81tu
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

:anjali:
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Re: 8 causes of earthquake

Postby whynotme » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:16 am

mikenz66 wrote:
whynotme wrote:I also see the four elements similar to four normal states of the matter, solid, liquid, gas, and plasma. Maybe, just maybe they see them with divine eye and use those words to describe them for people 2500 years ago to understand

I think that interpreting them that way would be to miss the point that the fire and air elements/properties have to do with heat, energy, and motion, which were considered to be properties of matter, not something separate.
http://what-buddha-said.net/library/Bud ... dh%C4%81tu
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

:anjali:
Mike

Thanks
Of course that is just my opinion, and I just feel it is interesting similarity, not much important

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Re: 8 causes of earthquake

Postby Weltschmerz Buddhist » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:06 pm

I never understood how one can pick and choose which parts are true and which parts are not of a certain religious text. Choose to interpret them another way than what is written. I think if you question one part then you need to question the entire sutra. I remember reading somewhere that when these earthquakes happen no one dies, but if a demon is brought on earth that people do die in those earthquakes, but I think this was just speculation. I believe this could be true.
Wake your self up inside and help everyone else wake up. If we want the world to end we can make it happen tomorrow. If we want to survive then we got to get together and survive. Get out of your life, whatever's important to you isn't really important to the world. There's more important things so start looking out for that and be a part of that as well because everything effects everyone else. Your silence is sometimes more deadly than your words.
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