Why did Buddhism (and not Jainism etc) die out in India?

[Bankei]

Hi

I have been wondering. Why do you think it was only Buddhism that died out in India while other religions such as Brahmanism or Hinduism or Jainism survive?

Surely the Muslim invasion should have wiped out the other 'idolatrous' religions too.

Tantric corruption doesn't adequately explain it either as Hindu trantra survived.

Any ideas?

Bankei

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

Jains now consider themselves a subset of Hinduism.

Buddhism however, despite all attempts by Hindus to denote the Buddha as a God, would not be subsumed into Hinduism.

That's the 20 second answer... if you want a better answer see "Brahmanism,Buddhism & Hinduism" by Lal Mani Joshi.

Metta,
Retro.

[tiltbillings]

Brahmanism, Buddhism and Hinduism

http://www.bps.lk/wheels_library/wheels ... 50_151.pdf

[Individual]

Greetings,

Jains now consider themselves a subset of Hinduism.

Buddhism however, despite all attempts by Hindus to denote the Buddha as a God, would not be subsumed into Hinduism.

Are you sure about that? You look at later movements in Indian Buddhists... Mahayana Buddhists worshipped Indian gods and developed practices like mantras, and in Vajrayana, this was even more true, with their elaborate tantric rituals. You could make the argument that Buddhism died out in India through assimilating itself out of existence, through mutual syncretism, where Buddhists adopted "Hindu" practices and Hindus created systems of yoga that resembled Buddhist teachings and disciplines... whereas different forms of Buddhism survived outside of India because of geographic boundaries. Everywhere that ideas exist, there is combination. Perhaps we can say that Buddhism, as saw by the Buddha, was not subsumed, but the superficial, material aspects?

[jcsuperstar]

are jains against the caste system? where there ever jain kings who replaced hindu kings and got rid of the caste system?

[David N. Snyder]

are jains against the caste system? where there ever jain kings who replaced hindu kings and got rid of the caste system?

Yes, the Jains are against caste, just like Buddhism. I think there may have been a few Jain kings, but never long enough to get rid of the caste system.

The Jains are also non-theistic like Buddhism. The major differences are on anatta, kamma, and nibbana.

I think Jainism survived because it was more similar to Hinduism and Buddhism survived and expanded in the Mahayana form because this too was more like Hinduism, but then went to Tibet, China, and other parts of Asia.

[MMK23]

Jains now consider themselves a subset of Hinduism.

This is not true.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings MMK23,

This is not true.

OK, well I'll rephrase... the Jain I know considers herself Hindu, and another friend who is Hindu (Brahman / Rig Veda) considers Jains to be Hindus too. Neither he, she, nor I, can speak for all Jains. If there's a more mainstream position, would you care to share it?

Metta,
Retro.

[jcsuperstar]

in india jains are considered hindu, but hinduism isnt one single religion they have many different beliefs so really hinduism is many different religions so why not jains as well?

but the point to my questions above was was jainism ever the threat to the status quo that buddhism was? and i think the answer is no.

[MMK23]

Greetings MMK23,

This is not true.

OK, well I'll rephrase... the Jain I know considers herself Hindu, and another friend who is Hindu (Brahman / Rig Veda) considers Jains to be Hindus too. Neither he, she, nor I, can speak for all Jains. If there's a more mainstream position, would you care to share it?

Metta,
Retro.

Well Jainism and Hinduism are too different things. I don't know how else to put it. I guess the comparable thing is that jainism and buddhism are two different things. However, Hinduism often assimilates spiritual traditions. For example, the Buddha is considered by Hinduism to be an incarnation of Krishna, albeit one with relatively little popularity. This doesn't stop your friends from being Hindu-Jains, for sure, just as some people consider themselves Christian Buddhists or Jewish Buddhists. But Hinduism and Jainism - other than for those who practice some sort of syncretism - are worlds apart. The view that Jainism is a subset of Hinduism would be a very small minority.

[Bankei]

Hinduism really refers to many religions - it is an umbrella term. I have Indian friends who have expressed surprise when I claimed Jainism was a separate religion. I was told the Jains are a specific caste.

But we all know that Buddhism and Jainism are separate religions with completely different philosophies to 'hinduism' and to each other. This caliming everything is hinduism may be due to the influence of Hindu nationalists in recent years.

[Bankei]

I am not sure it would be a good argument that Buddhism upset the status quo by opposing the caste system. From early on in Sri Lanka Buddhism embraced the caste system - of Buddhists did. This possibly occurred in India too because it was so entrenched in the society.

I am not sure of the Jain stance on Caste, but these days they seem to be a caste class themselves.

There is an article available which sounds interesting, but I don't have access:
Jaini, Padmanabh S. 1980 "The disappearance of Buddhism and the survival of Jainism: a study in contrast," in edited by A.K. Narain, _Studies in the History of Buddhism_ (Delhi: B.R. Publishing Corporation,

[Oleksandr]

There was another samana religion that once was widespread in India and died out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajivika