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Does voluntary S&M violate the third precept? - Dhamma Wheel

Does voluntary S&M violate the third precept?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
Individual
Posts: 1970
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:19 am

Does voluntary S&M violate the third precept?

Postby Individual » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:35 pm

My TV happened to flip onto some documentary about S&M, I believe. For those who might not know what that term means, S&M means "sadism and masochism," a sexual fetish where a person either enjoys causing pain, suffering, and humiliation (sadism) or receiving pain, suffering, and humiliation (masochism).

With most types of voluntary sexual activities, I think it's safe to say that it's permitted. It's also safe to say that serial rapists who engage in sadistic activities are clearly not permitted.

What I'm getting at here is voluntary S&M: Would this be regarded as "unwholesome"? Cittas associated with sadism or masochism are unwholesome. Would this still apply, though, in voluntary activities like this?
The best things in life aren't things.


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Fede
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Re: Does voluntary S&M violate the third precept?

Postby Fede » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:55 pm

"YourTV just 'happened' to flip...?" :roll: :D

Providing both members are ready, willing, able and enjoying it voluntarily, without coercion or force - it' does not contravene the third precept.
But I'd be hard pushed to believe many Buddhists would indulge.
there again, each to his own..... ;)
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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retrofuturist
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Re: Does voluntary S&M violate the third precept?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:54 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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cooran
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Re: Does voluntary S&M violate the third precept?

Postby cooran » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:04 pm

Hello Individual,

Kamma does not operate like civil law ... i.e. many things are legally O.K. between consenting adults. It is set in motion by cetana (intention).

The Buddha urged human beings to live non-injurious lives, hurting neither themselves [masochism], nor others [sadism] and neither themselves and others [sado-masochism].
Each intentional action of thought word or deed accrues either wholesome (kusala) or unwholesome (akusala) kamma and vipaka (results).
Akusala citta includes mind states with greed/lust, delusion/ignorance, or aversion. Kusala citta includes all wholesome, or skillful mind states.
Sado-masochistic thoughts and behaviour most certainly strengthens latent tendencies and adds to unwholesome kammic accumulations.

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
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nomad
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Re: Does voluntary S&M violate the third precept?

Postby nomad » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:48 am

"I am because we are." -Xhosa Tribal Saying

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Ben
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Re: Does voluntary S&M violate the third precept?

Postby Ben » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:41 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Individual
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Re: Does voluntary S&M violate the third precept?

Postby Individual » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:41 am

Fede, it honestly did just flip on. My mom left the TV on for a few hours,.. I just ignored it. Also, it turns out it was a documentary about gay people, called "Queer Street," I think, and it just had a large segment on S&M.

Also, I'd have to agree with Chris that it is bad karma, although that doesn't mean I'd be judgmental towards anybody who likes that sort of thing.
The best things in life aren't things.



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