Absolute Truth Necessary for Love?

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Radman622
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Absolute Truth Necessary for Love?

Postby Radman622 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:45 am

Hello, I have done some readings into Buddhist philosophies, and have always been very impressed by frequent mention and emphasis on love and compassion as the ultimate goal of enlightenment.

However, I have also noted that Buddhism is a highly relativistic religion/philosophy, one of the things about it that attracted me as opposed to more absolutist theistic religions. If I am incorrect in this assessment, please correct me.

I was contemplating the other day about the concept of an absence of absolute "Truth," and came to the conundrum of love. Pure, selfless love might be described as "the ultimate expression of truth," and I'm sure you'd all agree with me when I say I believe that love is the most powerful force in the universe, if it exists.

Basically, wouldn't the existence of something that powerful constitute an absolute? A truth? A God or at least, God-Force of some kind? Isn't it true that without this absolute, love is nothing more than a chemical reaction in the brain or an advantageous behavior, nothing more?

Please advise me, I am in personal crisis - my theistic friends and family have been posing these questions to me, and I am only beginning in my studies of Buddhism, so I am not entirely certain what the correct answer would be from a Buddhist perspective.

I do know one thing, I don't want to go through life not believing in love.

:namaste:

-Conrad

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m0rl0ck
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Re: Absolute Truth Necessary for Love?

Postby m0rl0ck » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:13 pm

Last edited by m0rl0ck on Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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equilibrium
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Re: Absolute Truth Necessary for Love?

Postby equilibrium » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:47 pm

Radman622
Love and compassion are only part of the goal of enlightenment, there are others such as appreciative joy and equanimity. Further developments leads to the ten perfections.

"the ultimate expression of truth" is not only love but includes those above.....and beyond.....you are correct however that it is "selfless"

To say god would be jumping to conclusions.

There is no such a thing as a personal crisis, if one were to remove the words "I am" and "personal" there is only crisis.....and that would be existence itself.....for anything to exist it must have an end.....by holding on to that existence would be suffering.

The love that we all know of when there is a self is different to that of the selfless, they are two different things.
You said it yourself "I do know one thing, I don't want to go through life not believing in love".....this shows that you are trying to hold on to this experience which is based on the self believe hence this believe cannot be true as you are already aware that there is love within the truth which is even more powerful.

A believe is just a believe, one should seek to know.

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DAWN
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Re: Absolute Truth Necessary for Love?

Postby DAWN » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:53 pm

Love have the same nature that gravitaion, and interdependence of all fenomena, this origin is Unity of all. (Even if Buddha said in "Cosmologist Sutta" that Oneness of all is a cosmology, Unity is one of propriety of samsara/nibbana)
Actualy feeling of love have no self, it's just manifestation of gravitation (unity) inside of us. Just some physic(dhammic) law.

And why "love" brings us pleasure?
Beacause is one of most natural fenomena, because swimming adrift a steam meka us suffer less that swimming against stream, against true nature of fenomena.
Aniway, we cant swimming against, because all action, all reaction, is fruition of love. We do only that we love (even if we do tht we dont love, we do it to get something that we love, so the love is origin), also heat of something is actualy love of something else (ego)

i hope you see that i talking bout
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...

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BubbaBuddhist
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Re: Absolute Truth Necessary for Love?

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:56 pm

Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Absolute Truth Necessary for Love?

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:14 pm

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


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m0rl0ck
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Re: Absolute Truth Necessary for Love?

Postby m0rl0ck » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:58 pm

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

CoreyNiles92
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Re: Absolute Truth Necessary for Love?

Postby CoreyNiles92 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:56 am

Love is just a chemical reaction in the brain, so too is the sound of music and the feeling you get while you listen to your favorite song. Or the chemical reaction in your eyes, that sends a message to your brain causing another reaction, allowing you to feel joy and peace when you see something beautiful beyond explanation.

Does the fact that a chemical reaction lies at the base of everything a human perceives and understands make things any less beautiful?

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Ben
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Re: Absolute Truth Necessary for Love?

Postby Ben » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:17 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Radman622
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Re: Absolute Truth Necessary for Love?

Postby Radman622 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:57 pm

I feel like there were great responses from everybody, and I wish that I could take the time to reply in detail to every one. Even so, I want to assure you all that I have carefully considered your words, and will probably re-read them in the future. Thank you all for your thoughtful repsonses!

A few points I would like to reply to:

Buddhism is rigid on ethics because what causes suffering is wrong. But this is significantly more... Logical... Than theistic religions which teach right and wrong on the basis of "God said so," in other words, an absolute. In this sense, it is more relativistic.

I suppose the notion that without some kind of "separate" existence of love (or other phenomenon) behind the "chemical reaction" it is somehow less meaningful is just the fact I've been raised for 18 years in the belief system of Neo-Platonism that is Christianity. Old habits die hard, please forgive me since I am just beginning.

Although I see the wisdom in what you all have said, I don't think one can have wisdom without love and compassion, enlightenment without virtue... Perhaps I was hasty in identifying love as superior to the other perfections, but they are all interrelated.

I don't know if I agree with your harsh assessment of personal love... Surely the tastes one have had of personal love, while not perfect, are manifestations of the greater "cosmic love" are clues which can lead one to know and experience the nature of love beyond the confines of the personal scale... An infant must crawl before it can walk, and to say that crawling is "useless" because it is not the fullness of walking is to ignore that it is a necessary prerequisite.

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Re: Absolute Truth Necessary for Love?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:11 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine


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