Drugs and re-enlightenment?

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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby Moth » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:41 am

Do not use cannabis. Cannabis causes unarisen unwholesome states to arise, and arisen unwholesome states to increase. I know this from experience. It is not the path. Practice meditation instead.
May you be happy. May you be a peace. May you be free from suffering.
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby ground » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:05 am

xtracorrupt wrote:after obtaining at least one stage of enlightenment i have tried multiple times the drug cannabis. It induces at least some form of anxiety and my mind has found it unavoidable, during influence of the drug i feel this abnormal anxiety and perhaps( no certainty/insight because recollection is unable of being perfect) i have gone through stages of enlightenment again? does anybody have experience with drugs while having some form of attainment. or any form of losing insight?

i have much confidence in this conclusion because before enlightenment the drug was more enjoyable and pleasing but now it brings undesirable feelings.

after the drugs influence diminishes my insight returns, but during the drug i fear losing enlightenment


If you have become weary of the drug then this is good. Why? Because this provides the possibility of spending life without drugs and mindfully. :sage:
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby CoreyNiles92 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:22 pm

xtracorrupt wrote:after obtaining at least one stage of enlightenment i have tried multiple times the drug cannabis. It induces at least some form of anxiety and my mind has found it unavoidable, during influence of the drug i feel this abnormal anxiety and perhaps( no certainty/insight because recollection is unable of being perfect) i have gone through stages of enlightenment again? does anybody have experience with drugs while having some form of attainment. or any form of losing insight?

i have much confidence in this conclusion because before enlightenment the drug was more enjoyable and pleasing but now it brings undesirable feelings.

after the drugs influence diminishes my insight returns, but during the drug i fear losing enlightenment


You've achieved enlightenment? But why do you break the fifth precept?
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby danieLion » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:56 pm

CoreyNiles92 wrote:
xtracorrupt wrote:after obtaining at least one stage of enlightenment i have tried multiple times the drug cannabis. It induces at least some form of anxiety and my mind has found it unavoidable, during influence of the drug i feel this abnormal anxiety and perhaps( no certainty/insight because recollection is unable of being perfect) i have gone through stages of enlightenment again? does anybody have experience with drugs while having some form of attainment. or any form of losing insight?

i have much confidence in this conclusion because before enlightenment the drug was more enjoyable and pleasing but now it brings undesirable feelings.

after the drugs influence diminishes my insight returns, but during the drug i fear losing enlightenment


You've achieved enlightenment? But why do you break the fifth precept?

Where did the Buddha say using cannabis violates the fifth precept (or that we should think of the precepts in terms of breaking/not-breaking or violating/not-voilating)? They're pragmatic guidelines, not PURITANICAL rules.
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:19 pm

Even if the Buddha doesn't specificaly say cannabis, you're the one who's using the 5 precepts as a legal system, trying to find loopholes in the precepts. the spirit, as well as the letter of the precept is important to consider. and the spirit of the precept is to not intake substances that leed to heedlessness (and certainly cannabis is one of them)
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby xtracorrupt » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:06 am

danieLion wrote:
CoreyNiles92 wrote:
xtracorrupt wrote:after obtaining at least one stage of enlightenment i have tried multiple times the drug cannabis. It induces at least some form of anxiety and my mind has found it unavoidable, during influence of the drug i feel this abnormal anxiety and perhaps( no certainty/insight because recollection is unable of being perfect) i have gone through stages of enlightenment again? does anybody have experience with drugs while having some form of attainment. or any form of losing insight?

i have much confidence in this conclusion because before enlightenment the drug was more enjoyable and pleasing but now it brings undesirable feelings.

after the drugs influence diminishes my insight returns, but during the drug i fear losing enlightenment


You've achieved enlightenment? But why do you break the fifth precept?

Where did the Buddha say using cannabis violates the fifth precept (or that we should think of the precepts in terms of breaking/not-breaking or violating/not-voilating)? They're pragmatic guidelines, not PURITANICAL rules.



This is actually a myth, the with percept is only directed towards alcohol, intoxicants generally were later integrated into the percept by the sanga, cannabis is something entirely different but also partially very similar, i will make a whole thread direct towards this because there is so many incredible possibilities.
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby CoreyNiles92 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:44 am

Cannabis is entirely different than alcohol in it's effect?

I wouldn't say entirely personally, I am not trying to attack you, but I'm a recovering drug addict, I know what it means to lie to meet your own means. I know the difference between happiness, and being caught in seeking it.

Do you not find that when you use Cannabis, that you are slightly impaired? That you might be more inclined to make choices you normally would not have while sober? Do you not feel gluttonous at times, seeking more than nourishment, unable to pay mind to the fact that over-indulgence in food should not bring happiness, though with Cannabis, temporarily it does?

Have you never fallen out of mindfulness more easily while high than while sober? Failing to notice things as they pass, and simply being on autopilot?

The total duration of a Cannabis high is 1-4 hours long. Impermanent, though the effects bring a desire to continue using it.

With impermanence in mind, consider the following effects.
The effects include:
mood lift, euphoria - You feel better, artificially after deliberately ingesting a drug.
increased giggling and laughing - You find humor in things you would normally not find so humorous, (*increased*)
relaxation, stress reduction - You find contentment and tranquility where you would normally not
creative, philosophical, abstract, or deep thinking : ideas flow more easily - Your imagination and mind dwell in a place where they could not go while sober. Not to say creativity doesn't exist without Cannabis, the highest forms exist without it, but you might only achieve such obscure creativity from such highs.
increased appreciation or awareness of music; deeper connection to music; increased emotional impact of music - You create a connection that will not last, and brings contentment and joy.
increased awareness of senses (taste, smell, touch, hearing, vision) - The benefits of sense become more mundane while sober, when they are increased to this point from a high.
change in experience of muscle fatigue; pleasant body feel; increase in body/mind connection - Your body/mind connection becomes a different experience, once again something you can experience, but not in the same sense without the drug.
pain relief (headaches, cramps) - Your avoidance of pain naturally builds when you are without it. Aversion from pain is part of the core of what we seek to dismantle, part of the process of leaving suffering behind.
reduced nausea, increased appetite (used medically for this) - You allow yourself to eat more in abundance than you normally would, unless medically advisable, at a point of starvation, or eating disorder. With no medical ailments, this is an inadvisable thing to bring upon yourself.
boring tasks or entertainment can become more interesting or funny - And if life isn't funny enough, you seek to create a new comedian. Does the creation not fade when you are no longer high?


I will not get too far into this, as those are only the positive effects listed by Erowid, that I have experienced myself and know to be true.

But I hope my meaning is there, and you understand where I am coming from.

I do believe the Buddha would consider marijuana an intoxicant, or at least I would hope so.

I'm not entirely sure where the hostility came from, but I believe it has something to do with the desire to continue using marijuana, and the fear that it may not be practical in becoming enlightened. I did not mean to provoke any sort of negative feelings with my comment, I apologize if I did. We are all friends here, I'm simply trying to help.
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby danieLion » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:29 am

xtracorrupt wrote: This is actually a myth, the with percept is only directed towards alcohol, intoxicants generally were later integrated into the percept by the sanga, cannabis is something entirely different but also partially very similar, i will make a whole thread direct towards this because there is so many incredible possibilities.

Since when does the "authority" of the sangha trump the authority of the Buddha (and you're abusing the word "myth")?
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby xtracorrupt » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:19 pm

danieLion wrote:
xtracorrupt wrote: This is actually a myth, the with percept is only directed towards alcohol, intoxicants generally were later integrated into the percept by the sanga, cannabis is something entirely different but also partially very similar, i will make a whole thread direct towards this because there is so many incredible possibilities.

Since when does the "authority" of the sangha trump the authority of the Buddha (and you're abusing the word "myth")?


exactly , u just basically just proved my point lol, and when i myth I mean its untrue that buddha said he was against intoxicants in the fifth percept who only mentioned alcohol.
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby xtracorrupt » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:32 pm

CoreyNiles92 wrote:Cannabis is entirely different than alcohol in it's effect?

I wouldn't say entirely personally, I am not trying to attack you, but I'm a recovering drug addict, I know what it means to lie to meet your own means. I know the difference between happiness, and being caught in seeking it.

Do you not find that when you use Cannabis, that you are slightly impaired? That you might be more inclined to make choices you normally would not have while sober? Do you not feel gluttonous at times, seeking more than nourishment, unable to pay mind to the fact that over-indulgence in food should not bring happiness, though with Cannabis, temporarily it does?

Have you never fallen out of mindfulness more easily while high than while sober? Failing to notice things as they pass, and simply being on autopilot?


The total duration of a Cannabis high is 1-4 hours long. Impermanent, though the effects bring a desire to continue using it.

With impermanence in mind, consider the following effects.
The effects include:
mood lift, euphoria - You feel better, artificially after deliberately ingesting a drug.
increased giggling and laughing - You find humor in things you would normally not find so humorous, (*increased*)
relaxation, stress reduction - You find contentment and tranquility where you would normally not
creative, philosophical, abstract, or deep thinking : ideas flow more easily - Your imagination and mind dwell in a place where they could not go while sober. Not to say creativity doesn't exist without Cannabis, the highest forms exist without it, but you might only achieve such obscure creativity from such highs.
increased appreciation or awareness of music; deeper connection to music; increased emotional impact of music - You create a connection that will not last, and brings contentment and joy.
increased awareness of senses (taste, smell, touch, hearing, vision) - The benefits of sense become more mundane while sober, when they are increased to this point from a high.
change in experience of muscle fatigue; pleasant body feel; increase in body/mind connection - Your body/mind connection becomes a different experience, once again something you can experience, but not in the same sense without the drug.
pain relief (headaches, cramps) - Your avoidance of pain naturally builds when you are without it. Aversion from pain is part of the core of what we seek to dismantle, part of the process of leaving suffering behind.
reduced nausea, increased appetite (used medically for this) - You allow yourself to eat more in abundance than you normally would, unless medically advisable, at a point of starvation, or eating disorder. With no medical ailments, this is an inadvisable thing to bring upon yourself.
boring tasks or entertainment can become more interesting or funny - And if life isn't funny enough, you seek to create a new comedian. Does the creation not fade when you are no longer high?


I will not get too far into this, as those are only the positive effects listed by Erowid, that I have experienced myself and know to be true.

But I hope my meaning is there, and you understand where I am coming from.

I do believe the Buddha would consider marijuana an intoxicant, or at least I would hope so.

I'm not entirely sure where the hostility came from, but I believe it has something to do with the desire to continue using marijuana, and the fear that it may not be practical in becoming enlightened. I did not mean to provoke any sort of negative feelings with my comment, I apologize if I did. We are all friends here, I'm simply trying to help.


yes but consider that I've become more aware and am trying to keep mind
fulness and harvest the good.
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby equilibrium » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:40 pm

xtracorrupt wrote:after obtaining at least one stage of enlightenment

Can you define this exactly in your own words?
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby xtracorrupt » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:23 pm

equilibrium wrote:
xtracorrupt wrote:after obtaining at least one stage of enlightenment

Can you define this exactly in your own words?


i answered the same question earlier in the thread
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby CoreyNiles92 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:02 am

xtracorrupt wrote:
equilibrium wrote:
xtracorrupt wrote:after obtaining at least one stage of enlightenment

Can you define this exactly in your own words?


i answered the same question earlier in the thread


xtracorrupt, I don't mean to offend you, or to be callous. But I would recommend you seek psychiatric help, you are experiencing delusions from what I've gathered, and they will seem very real to you, but sometimes when you have a large group of people disagreeing with you, there's a reason beyond what you believe to be true.
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby xtracorrupt » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:07 pm

CoreyNiles92 wrote:
equilibrium wrote:
xtracorrupt wrote:after obtaining at least one stage of enlightenment

Can you define this exactly in your own words?



xtracorrupt, I don't mean to offend you, or to be callous. But I would recommend you seek psychiatric help, you are experiencing delusions from what I've gathered, and they will seem very real to you, but sometimes when you have a large group of people disagreeing with you, there's a reason beyond what you believe to be true.


Thank you for worrying, but u are not able of judging whether or not i am deluded, you have judged that what i have said is what I believe, this is not true, it was just a perspective consideration, I made this thread not to make judgements but to gain knowledge, however unfortunately it seems the attachment to the fifth percept/enlightenment of some people has caused ignorance and the inability to consider what I'm saying. Many of you people have made judgements because u have a sense of requiring something, however you people need nothing and i hope instead of breaking your own peace u can learn to just take my perspective into consideration.

I will not ask about what kind of psychiatric help you would advise, because i fear it might re-enforce ignorance.

I apologise for causing any suffering/ignorance/ as I was unaware/ignorant of doing so earlier on

I have also removed a quote because i can only use maximum three
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby Sambodhi in Oz » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:46 pm

A sotapanna justifying drug addiction, really ?

Dear xtracorroupt, you need help ! By intoxicants, nobody means only alcohol but any intoxicant which somebody takes (solid / liquid / gaseous) This includes something that somebody makes out of ( in future ) metal / wood/ stardust / asteroids / any other conceivable compound or element which may or may not have been discovered as yet.

May you realise your mistake and learn from it, you can correct only when u realise a mistake.


Plus there is nothing like re- enlightenment, you don't fall out of enlightenment !

Metta

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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby xtracorrupt » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:58 pm

parth wrote:A sotapanna justifying drug addiction, really ?

Dear xtracorroupt, you need help ! By intoxicants, nobody means only alcohol but any intoxicant which somebody takes (solid / liquid / gaseous) This includes something that somebody makes out of ( in future ) metal / wood/ stardust / asteroids / any other conceivable compound or element which may or may not have been discovered as yet.

May you realise your mistake and learn from it, you can correct only when u realise a mistake.


Plus there is nothing like re- enlightenment, you don't fall out of enlightenment !

Metta

Parth


no you have misunderstood my message, I'm not trying to justify the need for drugs, I'm trying to justify that their is no need for refusal if able to abolish the ignorance with could cause corrupt information, the ignorance possible in this situation is extremely great and it is very difficult, that is why there is the fifth percept as a guideline to stay away from such lengths

:anjali:

and as to you say that you don' fall out of enlightenment :clap: , i was being ignorant at this point in terms of happiness ignorance( last 5 fetters relation) and you were able to spot this, this should be encourage and i applaud you :clap:
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby seeker242 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:11 pm

xtracorrupt wrote:does anybody have experience with drugs while having some form of attainment


Yes, when you get an attainment, you stop using drugs like cannabis because there is no longer any need to use them to begin with.
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby MaybeMonk » Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:33 pm

Whether we have receptors or Cannabis is labelled "x,y,z" can be an interesting and a stimulating discussion.

But the path the Buddha taught, discernment is the guideline:
- 'Is this skillful?'
- 'Does this lead to wholesome qualities of the mind?'
- 'Is there Lust, Anger, Ignorance?'
- 'Is this the path the Buddha taught?'
- 'Does this path lead out of suffering?'

From my point of view whether legal or illegal, receptors or not, Cannabis has an effect on the mind.

The Buddha taught the path that is practiced here and now. If one is to fully engage in the Buddha's teachings we must try to develop our Mindfulness, Concentration, and Virtue without the use of such substances that produce such an effect on the mind.

Take what you will, leave the rest :candle:

Metta :buddha2:
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby xtracorrupt » Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:26 pm

MaybeMonk wrote:Whether we have receptors or Cannabis is labelled "x,y,z" can be an interesting and a stimulating discussion.

But the path the Buddha taught, discernment is the guideline:
- 'Is this skillful?'
- 'Does this lead to wholesome qualities of the mind?'
- 'Is there Lust, Anger, Ignorance?'
- 'Is this the path the Buddha taught?'
- 'Does this path lead out of suffering?'

From my point of view whether legal or illegal, receptors or not, Cannabis has an effect on the mind.

The Buddha taught the path that is practiced here and now. If one is to fully engage in the Buddha's teachings we must try to develop our Mindfulness, Concentration, and Virtue without the use of such substances that produce such an effect on the mind.

Take what you will, leave the rest :candle:

Metta :buddha2:
'Maybe'Monk


This is very good, questioning your motives in order to promote good will. :clap:

:anjali:
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Postby knighter » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:37 am

Hello there

Have you heard of the hindi sadhu's maybe you should try that path there all up for smoking copious amounts of Ganja and finding enlightenment.
Be happy
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