My opinion on perspective,

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation

My opinion on perspective,

Postby xtracorrupt » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:50 pm

My opinion on importance is that happiness is right therefore a perspective can be better then another perspective if it brings more happiness

Ps, Earlier this thread was me saying nothing can be defined but i changed my mind
Last edited by xtracorrupt on Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby Reductor » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:54 pm

Please define 'nothing'.
Michael

The thoughts I've expressed in the above post are carefully considered and offered in good faith.

And friendliness towards the world is happiness for him who is forbearing with living beings. -- Ud. 2:1
To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness. -- Dhp 72

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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby DAWN » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:12 pm

Only silence is "right"
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby xtracorrupt » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:30 pm

DAWN wrote:Only silence is "right"


How do you know this?
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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby xtracorrupt » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:32 pm

Reductor wrote:Please define 'nothing'.


i can't, but in this perspective its more like asking, what can be defined?
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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby ground » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:27 am

xtracorrupt wrote:because nothing can be defined.

No. Everything can be defined. But not every definition will be accepted by everyone. Why? Because every definition is but a suggestion which makes it easier to communicate by means of words. If at least two persons agree to a definition then it is their convention. :sage:
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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:30 am

:goodpost:

Yes, that sounds right to me.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby xtracorrupt » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:08 am

ground wrote:
xtracorrupt wrote:because nothing can be defined.

No. Everything can be defined. But not every definition will be accepted by everyone. Why? Because every definition is but a suggestion which makes it easier to communicate by means of words. If at least two persons agree to a definition then it is their convention. :sage:


But how can somebody define what is definable? How can someone have an absolute understandment of the definable?

What makes your opinion of what can defined the correct definition?
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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby ground » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:12 am

xtracorrupt wrote:
ground wrote:
xtracorrupt wrote:because nothing can be defined.

No. Everything can be defined. But not every definition will be accepted by everyone. Why? Because every definition is but a suggestion which makes it easier to communicate by means of words. If at least two persons agree to a definition then it is their convention. :sage:


But how can somebody define what is definable? How can someone have an absolute understandment of the definable?

The nature of convention is exactly that it is relative. No need for seeking "absolute".

xtracorrupt wrote:What makes your opinion of what can defined the correct definition?

There is no definition. A view has been expressed by means of words.
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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby xtracorrupt » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:25 am

xtracorrupt wrote:
ground wrote:
xtracorrupt wrote:because nothing can be defined.

No. Everything can be defined. But not every definition will be accepted by everyone. Why? Because every definition is but a suggestion which makes it easier to communicate by means of words. If at least two persons agree to a definition then it is their convention. :sage:


But how can somebody define what is definable? How can someone have an absolute understandment of the definable?

Quote:(ground)The nature of convention is exactly that it is relative. No need for seeking "absolute".(maximum amount of quotes)

xtracorrupt wrote:What makes your opinion of what can defined the correct definition?

There is no definition. A view has been expressed by means of words.[/quote]

Exactly we don't need to obtain anything from anything, therefore we can keep an open mind and take everything into consideration.
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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby ground » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:29 am

xtracorrupt wrote:Exactly we don't need to obtain anything from anything, therefore we can keep an open mind and take everything into consideration.

I don't know what you need to obtain or you don't need to obtain, so "we" does not apply from my perspective.
Keeping an open mind does not negate the need for definitions in certain contexts. :sage:
(Actually worldly life could not be organized without definitions and may be led into chaos entailing much additional unhappiness.)
Last edited by ground on Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby Dan74 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:32 am

You can be right or wrong relative to a system of axioms or aims. So if you aim is not to get run over by a car, it is best to cross the road with care. Crossing the road carelessly would be the wrong thing to do relative to this aim.

If you aim is to come up with mathematically correct results, then you would would to use Peano axioms and rules of predicate calculus to make deductions. So Pythagoras asserting that the square of the long side of a right-angled triangle is the sum of squares of the other sides is mathematically correct, given the axioms (+Euclid's fifth axiom = flat space), it is also what we observe if we try to measure a triangular sandpit in our backyard. It is not correct if our triangle spans miles, both due to the unevenness of the terrain and more fundamentally the curves nature of the Earth.

So "right" or "wrong" are always with respect to some initial assumptions or "rules". Without them, there is no possibility of a discourse anyway.
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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby pegembara » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:50 am

So if it is right for a tiger to eat a deer, is it right for it to eat a small child?
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:01 am

pegembara wrote:So if it is right for a tiger to eat a deer, is it right for it to eat a small child?
Right from which frame of reference?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby ground » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:09 am

Some food for thought (inspired by D. Perdue's "Debate inTibetan buddhism", Chapter 3, i.e. partially quoted and arbitrarily amended):

Approaching "definition"

A definition may be considered to be the actual object (phenomenon) defined and necessarily refers to the definiendum which may be considered to be the name designated to that object (or designated to the phenomenon which is transformed into an object of thought by this designation). Of course since a conventional "name" in most cases evokes an idea and since the combination of "name" and idea is often referrred to as "concept" actually the definition is a verbal expression intended to standardize the idea aspect of a concept by means of a verbal delineation of what it is suggested to mean inter-individually thus trying to exclude everything else and thus suggesting a convention.

A particul definition, or characterizer, and its definiendum, or that characterized, are mutually inclusive. Mutual inclusion has two components. First the things mutually inclusive must be phenomena which are different that is they must be not exactly the same in both name and meaning. Obviously, any two mutually inclusive phenomena must be different in name, but their meaning, all the phenomena which they include or all those things to which their names can properly refer, must be just the same. The second requirement of mutually inclusive phenomena is that they be mutually pervasive; whatever is the one is necessarily the other. Both of these requirements of mutually inclusive phenomena obtain for any particular definition and its definiendum.The definition is considered to be the actual object defined and the definiendum is considered to be the name designated to that object.
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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby Yana » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:29 am

pegembara wrote:So if it is right for a tiger to eat a deer, is it right for it to eat a small child?


Why is a child more important than a deer to us? Because we are naturally attached to it.so we tend to do everything in our power to make sure they are safe.And it is natural for us to be upset and angry when a child is attacked.This is in our nature.Just like to kill and eat is in the tiger's nature.

Even though a child has been attacked and eaten and even though we are in pain and suffering with grief if we look deeply the answer to your question it would be yes,absolutely.Because your question asked "is it right for a tiger" so this is from a tiger's point of view.is it right for a human to have their children eaten by a tiger? the answer would most probably be no". Because our intention is to keep them safe.

Keeping your loved one safe and eating are both wholesome intentions.

However painful it seems from a subjective point of view.

We must remember that Right or Wrong is relative to it's Intentions.
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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby xtracorrupt » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:03 am

pegembara wrote:So if it is right for a tiger to eat a deer, is it right for it to eat a small child?


This is wrong because is causes suffering/ prevents happiness, unless the deer/human is in a state of which the suffering and future suffering is of greater value then the of its happiness and future happiness, therefore ending its life would not be of ill will, however we must be able of judging so in order to make this decision, but I think we are incapable of doing so.
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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby DAWN » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:51 am

xtracorrupt wrote:
DAWN wrote:Only silence is "right"


How do you know this?


I dont know the silence, it's the silence that know me
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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Re: Why nobody is wrong or right

Postby pegembara » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:21 am

tiltbillings wrote:
pegembara wrote:So if it is right for a tiger to eat a deer, is it right for it to eat a small child?
Right from which frame of reference?


Exactly.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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