Buddhism cult

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ignobleone
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Buddhism cult

Postby ignobleone » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:34 pm

Hi,

Someone via pm warned me that this forum is a cult. Maybe some of you have anything to say regarding this claim as well as some other things he also said:
- Most monks are 'clueless', thus you need to cultivate jhana yourself to be an authority
- Since monks are clueless, talking about faith(sadha) in the Sangha is a nonsense

He sent me the pm in response to my comments on jhana related threads. When I ask what clues he has concerning the 1st jhana, I don't see he has some other things beside the jhana factors. I wonder if he has categorized people including himself (into 'clueless' and 'not clueless' category) correctly.

When explaining about jhana, he relates the 1st jhana with stream-entry. This sounds familiar to me. I guess he came from the pragmatic dharma forum out there such as founded by Kenneth Folk, Daniel Ingram, etc, with weird views on jhana.

:juggling:

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:51 pm

:D

I would think it would be pretty hard to be a cult if you are an online forum. It would be kind of hard to control people's behavior when you don't see them, don't meet them, don't even know what many of the people here look like. :lol:

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ancientbuddhism
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby ancientbuddhism » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:36 pm

ignobleone wrote:Hi,

Someone via pm warned me that this forum is a cult. Maybe some of you have anything to say regarding this claim as well as some other things he also said:
- Most monks are 'clueless', thus you need to cultivate jhana yourself to be an authority
- Since monks are clueless, talking about faith(sadha) in the Sangha is a nonsense ...


Sounds rather Elemental
Anuvicca papañca nāmarūpaṃ
ajjhattaṃ bahiddhā ca rogamūlaṃ,
sabbarogamūlabandhanā pamutto
anuvidito tādi pavuccate tathattā
.

“Having known the naming of objects,
With its proliferation, its root in illness – within and without;
One is released from bondage to the root of all illness.
And thus is called the Knowing One – the Such.

– Sn. 3.6 (Sabhiyasuttaṃ)

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)

A Handful of Leaves

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Cittasanto
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:59 pm

David N. Snyder wrote::D

I would think it would be pretty hard to be a cult if you are an online forum. It would be kind of hard to control people's behavior when you don't see them, don't meet them, don't even know what many of the people here look like. :lol:

I agree master! what shall we think now?
:tongue:

ok couldn't resist brown nosing the admin... for this thread!

I think there is a diverse group of views and opinions here unlike some places, so maybe it is just projection? who cares what some anonymous person thinks.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:03 pm

Cittasanto wrote:I think there is a diverse group of views and opinions here unlike some places, so maybe it is just projection? who cares what some anonymous person thinks.


:goodpost:

Cittasanto wrote:I agree master! what shall we think now?


By the way, it's your turn to clean my toilet. :tongue:

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James the Giant
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby James the Giant » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:01 pm

I've heard criticism that "People at Dhamma Wheel are fundamentalists because they quote relevant suttas and expect that to be accepted!
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

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retrofuturist
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:04 pm

Greetings,

James the Giant wrote:I've heard criticism that "People at Dhamma Wheel are fundamentalists because they quote relevant suttas and expect that to be accepted!

Well, refuge in the Buddha and the Dhamma is fundamental to being Buddhist.

8-)

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

Yana
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby Yana » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:58 pm

ignobleone wrote:Hi,

Someone via pm warned me that this forum is a cult.
:juggling:


Yes actually that someone is doing my homework right now..apparently i brain washed him...? hm strange :tongue:
Life is preparing for Death

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:03 am

Yana wrote:Yes actually that someone is doing my homework right now..apparently i brain washed him...? hm strange :tongue:


Good job. :thumbsup:

James the Giant wrote:I've heard criticism that "People at Dhamma Wheel are fundamentalists because they quote relevant suttas and expect that to be accepted!


Do you have the coordinates of the subversives? We can send a squad car over right away! :spy: :jedi:

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby Modus.Ponens » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:20 am

:rofl:

PS: yes, element is certainly a possibility.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

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Cittasanto
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:52 am

Modus.Ponens wrote::rofl:

PS: yes, element is certainly a possibility.

it does appear he has been back recently.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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ground
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby ground » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:59 am

ignobleone wrote:Hi,

Someone via pm warned me that this forum is a cult.

if consciousness seeks a home then it is the opposite of liberation but actually self-supporting the sense of "I" and "mine". This occurs in different contexts so it may also occur in the context of the internet and its forums. Can such a phenomenon appropriately be called "cult"? :sage:

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Monkey Mind
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby Monkey Mind » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:07 am

I'm glad I am not the only one to suspect this. There must be some type of subliminal mind control going on here, why else would I be reading DW when I have important homework to do? :spy:
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710

Yana
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby Yana » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:28 am

Monkey Mind wrote:I'm glad I am not the only one to suspect this. There must be some type of subliminal mind control going on here, why else would I be reading DW when I have important homework to do? :spy:


That's what i Thought!I am Hooked on reading thread after the thread! :coffee:
Life is preparing for Death

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m0rl0ck
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby m0rl0ck » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:23 am

ignobleone wrote:Hi,

Someone via pm warned me that this forum is a cult. Maybe some of you have anything to say regarding this claim as well as some other things he also said:
- Most monks are 'clueless', thus you need to cultivate jhana yourself to be an authority
- Since monks are clueless, talking about faith(sadha) in the Sangha is a nonsense

He sent me the pm in response to my comments on jhana related threads. When I ask what clues he has concerning the 1st jhana, I don't see he has some other things beside the jhana factors. I wonder if he has categorized people including himself (into 'clueless' and 'not clueless' category) correctly.

When explaining about jhana, he relates the 1st jhana with stream-entry. This sounds familiar to me. I guess he came from the pragmatic dharma forum out there such as founded by Kenneth Folk, Daniel Ingram, etc, with weird views on jhana.

:juggling:


Im not a theravadan buddhist. My experience with this forum is that it is perhaps the sanest, most fairly moderated and tolerant buddhist forum on the internet. Its prudent to be careful who you credit with authority and i would start with the guy that sent you the pm :)
"When you meditate, don't send your mind outside. Don't fasten onto any knowledge at all. Whatever knowledge you've gained from books or teachers, don't bring it in to complicate things. Cut away all preoccupations, and then as you meditate let all your knowledge come from what's going on in the mind. When the mind is quiet, you'll know it for yourself. But you have to keep meditating a lot. When the time comes for things to develop, they'll develop on their own. Whatever you know, have it come from your own mind.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... eleft.html

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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby nibbuti » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:03 pm

ignobleone wrote:When I ask what clues he has concerning the 1st jhana, I don't see he has some other things beside the jhana factors.

Hi ignobleone

Obviously that's what the Buddha taught.

ignobleone wrote:I wonder if he has categorized people including himself (into 'clueless' and 'not clueless' category) correctly

We're all clueless to certain extent so long as we haven't eradicated all fetters.

A reminder of that is worth gold, as it does not unnecessarily build up false expectations.

The Dhamma practise is not like collecting trick-or-treat candy, but rather like peeling off onion layers.

Should one a man of wisdom meet
who points out faults and gives reproof,
who lays a hidden treasure bare,
with such a sage should one consort.
Consorting so is one enriched
and never in decline
. - Dhp verse 76


ignobleone wrote:weird views on jhana.

Most if not all descriptions/views of jhana I've read by respected teachers and good men were weird and not helpful.

There's a reason the Buddha only gave us a short formula in all the 10'000s of suttas, and it's not because "jhana was common back then". ;)

Just practise the Noble Eightful Path thoroughly and you'll see for yourself.

:namaste:

ignobleone
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby ignobleone » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:53 am

nibbuti wrote: :namaste:

Sorry, I have decided not to argue with non-buddhist.

nibbuti
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby nibbuti » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:20 am

ignobleone wrote:Sorry, I have decided not to argue with non-buddhist.

No problem, friend. What is true & beneficial (Dhamma) can be seen by the wise for oneself w/o argueing, denomination or personality view (sakkāya-diṭṭhi).

:meditate:

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Cittasanto
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:00 am

:rofl: :popcorn:
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:43 am

Anyway, Buddhists aren't very good at cults because they're always asking questions... :tongue:
"I ride tandem with the random, Things don't run the way I planned them, In the humdrum."
Peter Gabriel lyric


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