Jhana4 wrote:meindzai wrote:But for the most part it's expensive, unrealistic, extreme, and alienating.
LOL. Aside from that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the show?
It actually was pretty fun, believe it or not. Did I mention my raw apple pie?
I've been a vegan for over 15 years and a vegetarian for over 30 years. Raw foodists tend to turn up at many of our events and places. Your assessment of the the internet Raw crowd pretty much fits the real world raw crowd too. I do know some really down to Earth people who are "raw", but they are the minority and I don't really consider them to be raw foodists. The nice ones typically describe themselves in such terms as "50% raw" or "70% raw". In other words, they aren't raw foodists, they are just people who like to eat a lot of salads.
Yeah, I remember this distinction as well. I actually had a goal of being 50% raw, though not vegan- I thought this was reasonable. Right now it isn't, but a lot of that is economics.
Jhana4 wrote:Most of the articles Pollan publishes often revolves around him eating politically correct animal products most Americans can't afford. He hardly ever writes about "eating mostly plants" himself. This is a significant point given your criticism about raw foodism being expensive.
Yes, and this is an economic issue and personal issue, one that he's brought up. Our personal choice (my wife and I) is to spend more money on food than most people, (including the family of four we live with) which includes locally grown fruits and vegetables, and meat from a local butcher. That is our groceries and also our health plan, since we do not have benefits.
There is a problem both with the costs of food and what people are willing to spend on it. I've met even poor families who spend the least money per calories they can - so a cart stocked with pasta, rice, boxed foods, etc., but who will still somehow splurge on that video game for their kid. People actually should be spending more money on food, and less money on other things, but there is a problem with priorities and something not quite right with the economics of how it's sold (though I don't propose to know what the problem is exactly or how to fix it.)
On amazon.com organic, grass feed beef goes for $8 a pound. Grass fed steak goes for about $17 a pound. Canned, wild salmon goes for about $30 a pound. I live in a pricey urban area, but I can buy organic whole grains and legumes for about $2 a pound.
I haven't heard Pollan recommend this extreme, though perhaps he has, and perhaps this is the ideal. I've heard him recommend pretty much what we are doing, which is to buy local and organic when possible. We buy from a local butcher and pay about $60 for a bundle which lasts us about two weeks. We buy our vegetables from a farmers market (I try to go a few times a week) and then supplement with stuff from the grocery store. I think we pay about $120 a week for two of us, excluding the occasional meal out. We feel pretty good about our diet because we cook all our food and the local meats are fantastic.
A good friend of mine who is a yoga teacher and vegetarian, very health conscious, but not extreme, made a point about vegetarianism that stuck in my head. He said that it's possible that if you're not vegetarian/vegan, it might just not be in your karma to be so. He didn't mean that in mean way as "you are condemned to eat meat," but for some people it simply doesn't work as well in some particular life or some particular phase of life. The economics seem to bear this out. For myself, I simply cannot get satiated on a vegetarian diet. When I eat vegetarian I am just plain hungry and tired, which causes me to eat a lot more, so the economics don't seem to work in my favor. Not for lack of giving a serious go at it.
I still look to the vegan and raw food community for recipes and ideas, and there is a great raw food restaurant in Tampa that I like. Of course I have to eat again about 2 hours later, but it's great while it lasts.