What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
pegembara
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Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Post by pegembara »

Here is a koan by the Ajahn Chah recounted by Aj Brahmavamso.

Ajahn Chah took one look at me, saw that I'd been in a deep meditation, and he said, "Brahmavamso, why?"

I was completely surprised and confused, and replied, "I don't know."

Afterwards he said, "If anyone ever asks you that question again, the correct answer is, 'There is nothing.' Do you understand?"

"Yes," I said.

"No you don't," he replied.

So if you've been asking that question, "Why? Why? Why?," I've given you the answer now. It's straight from a great meditation master, Ajahn Chah. The answer to the question "Why?" is, "There is nothing."

http://www.midamericadharma.org/gangess ... ml#letting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; go
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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m0rl0ck
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Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Post by m0rl0ck »

pegembara wrote:Here is a koan by the Ajahn Chah recounted by Aj Brahmavamso.

Ajahn Chah took one look at me, saw that I'd been in a deep meditation, and he said, "Brahmavamso, why?"

I was completely surprised and confused, and replied, "I don't know."

Afterwards he said, "If anyone ever asks you that question again, the correct answer is, 'There is nothing.' Do you understand?"

"Yes," I said.

"No you don't," he replied.

So if you've been asking that question, "Why? Why? Why?," I've given you the answer now. It's straight from a great meditation master, Ajahn Chah. The answer to the question "Why?" is, "There is nothing."

http://www.midamericadharma.org/gangess ... ml#letting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; go
Yes, but its a really interesting nothing i bet.
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Viscid
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Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Post by Viscid »

m0rl0ck wrote:Yes, but its a really interesting nothing i bet.
It's probably an interesting nothing from the perspective of something, but not interesting in and of itself.

It's worthwhile to note that Brahm doesn't actually give his interpretation of what Chah meant. Perhaps the statement is more meaningful to people without one. Maybe Brahm isn't sure what he meant. It sure does sound profound, though.
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beeblebrox
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Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Post by beeblebrox »

These koans are like mini-samsara and you have to figure out the nibbana, that's all... (without turning it into a papanca mess, please.)
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Kamran
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Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Post by Kamran »

Thanks for the replies. I paraphrased the quotes from dhamma talks but will have to find them on my mp3 player. Below is some additional info that I found.

"In trying to answer the Koan, the student will come to a mental "precipice", as it were, where all the methods and procedures of accepted thinking no longer function. The purpose of the Koan is to shove the student over this precipice into an area of experience that is completely new. This is the spiritual reality that the Zen master is attempting to guide the student towards."

" What is the sound of one hand?" Of course, in terms of the conventional world there can be no sound from a single hand. Sound logically needs two hands clapping. However, the question presumes that one hand clapping has already created a sound and that it can be heard. The question is not about sound or hands clapping, although this is quite conceivable within the context of Zen. The question is rather about hearing the impossible, which is only termed impossible within the framework of conventional reality. The Zen master is therefore pressing and encouraging the student to critique ordinary reality and to force the mind into other areas of understanding."

http://www.essortment.com/understanding ... 42451.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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retrofuturist
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Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Kamran wrote:Thanissaro Bikhu says that maybe this famous koan is referring to sights, sounds, smells, and tastes that clap against the mind and cause it to clap back.
Yes - phassa, contact.

For a sutta equivalent teaching, consider this...
SN 12.64 wrote:"Just as if there were a roofed house or a roofed hall having windows on the north, the south, or the east. When the sun rises, and a ray has entered by way of the window, where does it land?"

"On the western wall, lord."

"And if there is no western wall, where does it land?"

"On the ground, lord."

"And if there is no ground, where does it land?"

"On the water, lord."

"And if there is no water, where does it land?"

"It does not land, lord."

"In the same way, where there is no passion for the nutriment of physical food ... contact ... intellectual intention ... consciousness, where there is no delight, no craving, then consciousness does not land there or grow. Where consciousness does not land or grow, name-&-form does not alight. Where name-&-form does not alight, there is no growth of fabrications. Where there is no growth of fabrications, there is no production of renewed becoming in the future. Where there is no production of renewed becoming in the future, there is no future birth, aging, & death. That, I tell you, has no sorrow, affliction, or despair."
Metta,
Retro. :)
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ground
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Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Post by ground »

"Absorbed in this way, the excellent thoroughbred of a man is absorbed dependent neither on earth, liquid, fire, wind, the sphere of the infinitude of space, the sphere of the infinitude of consciousness, the sphere of nothingness, the sphere of neither perception nor non-perception, this world, the next world, nor on whatever is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, attained, sought after, or pondered by the intellect — and yet he is absorbed. And to this excellent thoroughbred of a man, absorbed in this way, the gods, together with Indra, the Brahmas, & Pajapati, pay homage even from afar:
'Homage to you, O thoroughbred man.
Homage to you, O superlative man —
you of whom we don't know even what it is
dependent on which
you're absorbed.'"

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:meditate:
pegembara
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Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Post by pegembara »

In a similar tone, here is another zen story.
Zen master Dae Kwang was giving a speech.

Halfway through, the thunder started to sound.. Someone asked a question, he said "can you hear the thunder?" *thunder claps* "that is it! that is the answer from Buddha (laughter)" And five more questions came - what is enlightened person, who can become enlightened, how to practice and become enlightened, all dharmas return to one one returns to what?, etc.

And his answer to each question was, "did you hear the thunder?"

Then it started to rain, it got so loud that he stopped speaking and we just sat there. The rain itself becomes the dharma talk... so everyone sat there in meditation... the zen master sat very still. Just the sound of dripping rain filling the whole universe... the sound enjoying and hearing itself... that's Buddha, clear and blissful.

Then after 20 minutes he began to speak. He said you don't need to remember anything I said... the rain is the best dharma talk. So the talk ended, 15 minutes early.
" Non duality means to stay with whatever arises so that there is no subject and no object. "
Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

'In the seen will be merely what is seen; in the heard will be merely what is heard; in the sensed will be merely what is sensed; in the cognized will be merely what is cognized.'
Bahiya Sutta
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
Yana
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Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Post by Yana »

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Like whuush waaww whushh wawww but more finer.It depends on how fast i clap.
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Ben
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Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Post by Ben »

Yana wrote:What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Like whuush waaww whushh wawww but more finer.It depends on how fast i clap.
Can you do it again, but faster?
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in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
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Yana
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Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Post by Yana »

Ben wrote:
Yana wrote:What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Like whuush waaww whushh wawww but more finer.It depends on how fast i clap.
Can you do it again, but faster?
that's strange..

I can hear a sound but i can't put it into words.
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daverupa
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Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Post by daverupa »

  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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seeker242
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Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Post by seeker242 »

Kamran wrote:Thanissaro Bikhu says that maybe this famous koan is referring to sights, sounds, smells, and tastes that clap against the mind and cause it to clap back. Is the koan referring to the mind that does not clap back and does not react to the senses but just observes them ? That is the mind that we are after.

Ajahn Sumedho thinks the sound of one hand clapping is the sound of silence, also called the nada, which is a pleasant whistling noise from within the ear that meditators often hear and that can be used as a meditation aid.

I am interested to know what others think of this koan.

Thanks.
The koan is referring to the thing that can not be spoken of, even though the thing is not a "thing" per say. All koans point to this no thing thing. So as soon as you open your mouth to say what it is or what it means, you make a mistake. This is why zen is considered a tradition that is "before words and speech". The question definitely has an answer, it's just not a "word, speech" answer.
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Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Post by nem »

My impression from reading many of the Pali suttas, that apart from having heard the Bhudda explain the Dhamma in person with his particular knowledge and skill in teaching, enlightenment is a gradual progression from practicing the path and using the jhanas or insight meditation along with practice in your daily life to realize the truths and penetrate them, internalize or become one with them, and not to something that would dawn on you from a koan for example unless you have already practiced to destroy the taints and had already developed through practice to that point.

What is the understanding of the people who use koans? To use the koan to launch out into the realm of neither perception or non-perception from some near Jhana.
pegembara
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Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Post by pegembara »

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And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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